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cjacaruso Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2020 Posts: 16 Location: Montana
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Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:19 pm Post subject: Adjusting shift lever and lock out plate |
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Hello. I have a 1978 Bus. I put in a rebuilt tranny but can't get it to shift correctly. I can get all gears to work but only if I make adjustments to the shift lockout plate. Once I get 2 or 3 gears to work, then others barely work. Reverse works fine but often when I go for 2nd gear I get the grinding letting me know I am trying to shift into reverse while moving forward. I notice a lot of the pieces associated with the shift lever, front shift linkage, little pin inside the ball of the lever, and shift plate are worn. Of particular concern is the end of the shift lever. It has a flat spot which I don't think should be there. See the photo. I can weld, grind, and file to fix these things but I mainly wonder if anyone knows if that shift lever flat spot is supposed to be there or due to wear. The flat spot rides against the reverse lockout tab on the lockout plate.
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16971 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: Adjusting shift lever and lock out plate |
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You need to weld repair that plus make sure that your forward shift rod bushing is good. That flat spot happens because there wasn’t enough grease. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: Adjusting shift lever and lock out plate |
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I'd weld that as Gary said, replace the front bushing if it is gone, check the shift coupler and try again. If that fails it is pull the trans and replace the donut inside the selector. Install the metal plate at the same time. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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ivwshane Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 1920 Location: Sacramento ca
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Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:17 am Post subject: Re: Adjusting shift lever and lock out plate |
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I found this forum post to be very helpful:
https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=18781
Quote: |
If you are having problems with:
1st gear - Adjust the shifter back
1st and 2nd - Adjust the shifter to the right
2nd gear - Adjust the shifter forward
1st and 3rd - Adjust the shifter adjust to the back
2nd and 4th - Adjust to the front
3rd - Adjust back
3rd and 4th - Adjust left
4th - Adjust forward
Reverse: adjust the shifter right or front; but just a little. Reverse could be an internal transmission problem. |
_________________ 77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab |
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igotta40 Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2014 Posts: 113 Location: Texas
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Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: Adjusting shift lever and lock out plate |
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A year ago I went through the same issue. I had mine welded then I shaped it. Also, I returned the aftermarket junk I had ordered. Back in business. Cost about $10.
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16971 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:35 pm Post subject: Re: Adjusting shift lever and lock out plate |
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Yep. It won’t work well with that flat spot. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Clementine79 Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2019 Posts: 320 Location: WA
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:55 am Post subject: Re: Adjusting shift lever and lock out plate |
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ivwshane wrote: |
I found this forum post to be very helpful:
https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=18781
Quote: |
If you are having problems with:
1st gear - Adjust the shifter back
1st and 2nd - Adjust the shifter to the right
2nd gear - Adjust the shifter forward
1st and 3rd - Adjust the shifter adjust to the back
2nd and 4th - Adjust to the front
3rd - Adjust back
3rd and 4th - Adjust left
4th - Adjust forward
Reverse: adjust the shifter right or front; but just a little. Reverse could be an internal transmission problem. |
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On this when it says adjust shifter are you just adjusting the plate or physically moving the shifter a bit and tightening down again?
On mine I can shift 1, 2, 3, 4 up goes fine all nice and smooth. If I come to a stop and back in N gear I can shift up to 1st fine but not into second.
I have to goto reverse then 1, 2, 3, 4 works fine again. It also will not down shift from say 3 down to 2, I have to stop, reverse then I can go 1 to 2.
Once in 4th I can downshift to 3rd fine also so Im assuming its the plate that still needs to be moved on mine? _________________ 1979 VW BUS
Riviera Penthouse Model |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51152 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Adjusting shift lever and lock out plate |
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Have you done anything with the coupler at the nose of the transmission? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Clementine79 Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2019 Posts: 320 Location: WA
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Adjusting shift lever and lock out plate |
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Have not inspected it yet, we just got the bus back about 3,000 miles ago and they did adjust and inspect the shifter assembly when reassembled. They rebuild the 091 transmission at that time. _________________ 1979 VW BUS
Riviera Penthouse Model |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:23 am Post subject: Re: Adjusting shift lever and lock out plate |
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It sounds to me like you are sort of hijacking this old thread, not in an inconsiderate way, but rather wondering if the things in this thread might be your problem. It also sounds like 3000 miles ago it worked fine - is this correct, or has it never worked right since you got it back? It might be worth your while to start your own thread on the problem so not to confuse people that everything written prior in the thread is you. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51152 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: Adjusting shift lever and lock out plate |
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Clementine79 wrote: |
......... about 3,000 miles ago a......... |
Sounds like just about enough time for a grub screw to work loose, or a cage to become detached at the weld from some aggressive noobie shift work.
Sounds like something moves, and by going to reverse you reset it. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Clementine79 Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2019 Posts: 320 Location: WA
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: Adjusting shift lever and lock out plate |
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SGKent wrote: |
It sounds to me like you are sort of hijacking this old thread, not in an inconsiderate way, but rather wondering if the things in this thread might be your problem. It also sounds like 3000 miles ago it worked fine - is this correct, or has it never worked right since you got it back? It might be worth your while to start your own thread on the problem so not to confuse people that everything written prior in the thread is you. |
Yes it worked fine when we picked up, for about 4 months or so we came to a stop and it would not go into gear, I did adjust the plate at that time and it has worked fine ever since, then developed this issue about a week ago. I will take a gander under the bus next time I have a chance to see if anything looks off. _________________ 1979 VW BUS
Riviera Penthouse Model |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50352
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: Adjusting shift lever and lock out plate |
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Clementine79 wrote: |
SGKent wrote: |
It sounds to me like you are sort of hijacking this old thread, not in an inconsiderate way, but rather wondering if the things in this thread might be your problem. It also sounds like 3000 miles ago it worked fine - is this correct, or has it never worked right since you got it back? It might be worth your while to start your own thread on the problem so not to confuse people that everything written prior in the thread is you. |
Yes it worked fine when we picked up, for about 4 months or so we came to a stop and it would not go into gear, I did adjust the plate at that time and it has worked fine ever since, then developed this issue about a week ago. I will take a gander under the bus next time I have a chance to see if anything looks off. |
As BD mentioned the cage part of the shift coupling can come loose from the hub and cause shifting problems. Even a tiny amount of movement here can cause problems and the problems can appear suddenly. The solution is the weld the cage to the hub so there is zero relative movement. |
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Rooikop Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2018 Posts: 37 Location: UK
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:58 am Post subject: Re: Adjusting shift lever and lock out plate |
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Newbie here (to a Bus - I've had a 66 Type 1 for nearly 20 years): I'm confused by the references to "the cage part of the shift coupling" plus welding it to "the hub". I've just replaced the shift bushings and rear coupling but don't recognise either of these 2 bits ...............
Anyone help me understand?
I'm having terrible shift issues, and have to double de-clutch for every gear change. This is OK on the move (2/3/4 and 4/3/2) but getting into 1st at any time but especially when stationary is a complete b**ch! I'll try the advice above about pushing the plate forward a bit and see if that helps, but I'm at my wit's end trying to get this sorted out. Currently nobody else in my family wants to drive it, things are so difficult ............
PS: the shift lever is fitted with a low-throw plate and together with the other maintenance I've done things do feel quite tight (in a good way). But even a 1971 Bus has to have a better shift arrangement than this! |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50352
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:24 am Post subject: Re: Adjusting shift lever and lock out plate |
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Rooikop wrote: |
Newbie here (to a Bus - I've had a 66 Type 1 for nearly 20 years): I'm confused by the references to "the cage part of the shift coupling" plus welding it to "the hub". I've just replaced the shift bushings and rear coupling but don't recognise either of these 2 bits ...............
Anyone help me understand?
I'm having terrible shift issues, and have to double de-clutch for every gear change. This is OK on the move (2/3/4 and 4/3/2) but getting into 1st at any time but especially when stationary is a complete b**ch! I'll try the advice above about pushing the plate forward a bit and see if that helps, but I'm at my wit's end trying to get this sorted out. Currently nobody else in my family wants to drive it, things are so difficult ............
PS: the shift lever is fitted with a low-throw plate and together with the other maintenance I've done things do feel quite tight (in a good way). But even a 1971 Bus has to have a better shift arrangement than this! |
Sounds like your pilot bearing (gland nut) is shot, or maybe your clutch lining is failing. |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:07 am Post subject: Re: Adjusting shift lever and lock out plate |
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what Mike said - pilot bearing or warped clutch lining. How does it shift when the engine is off? _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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alman72 Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2014 Posts: 2573 Location: MICHIGAN
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:13 am Post subject: Re: Adjusting shift lever and lock out plate |
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Rooikop wrote: |
Newbie here (to a Bus - I've had a 66 Type 1 for nearly 20 years): I'm confused by the references to "the cage part of the shift coupling" plus welding it to "the hub". I've just replaced the shift bushings and rear coupling but don't recognise either of these 2 bits ...............
Anyone help me understand?
I'm having terrible shift issues, and have to double de-clutch for every gear change. This is OK on the move (2/3/4 and 4/3/2) but getting into 1st at any time but especially when stationary is a complete b**ch! I'll try the advice above about pushing the plate forward a bit and see if that helps, but I'm at my wit's end trying to get this sorted out. Currently nobody else in my family wants to drive it, things are so difficult ............
PS: the shift lever is fitted with a low-throw plate and together with the other maintenance I've done things do feel quite tight (in a good way). But even a 1971 Bus has to have a better shift arrangement than this! |
stolen from the gallery. shift coupling/cage
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Rooikop Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2018 Posts: 37 Location: UK
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:57 am Post subject: Re: Adjusting shift lever and lock out plate |
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Thanks guys - always good to learn.
So what plan of attack? In order:
1. Keep trying to adjust shift lever. [Also worth trying without short throw kit?]
2. Drop engine and inspect the clutch plate / replace if worn.
3. Inspect Gland Nut and bearing / replace if worn. [I've seen several comments on-line saying these things are pretty bullet proof and rarely are an issue ........... Can I ask what makes you go for this as the cause?]
I don't mind working on the Bus (its a hobby, after all) but there are limits to my time. I really don't want to do more than I have to.
Regards |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:22 am Post subject: Re: Adjusting shift lever and lock out plate |
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Does the transmission shift Ok when the engine is off? If the answer is yes then the problem is likely with the pilot bearing or a warped clutch disk. How does the freeplay feel? If there is too much freeplay that can cause it too. Another rare issue is that the driven disk can be too tight on the input shaft splines and not free to move. Did you dust the input shaft with some moly dust like the manual calls for, or a little high temp grease? Does it slide easily?
If the answer is that it still doesn't shift correctly when the engine is off then the issue could be in the shifter or the transmission. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50352
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Adjusting shift lever and lock out plate |
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Rooikop wrote: |
3. Inspect Gland Nut and bearing / replace if worn. [I've seen several comments on-line saying these things are pretty bullet proof and rarely are an issue ........... Can I ask what makes you go for this as the cause?] |
About half the VW transaxles I have pulled over the years have had damaged input shafts from the pilot bearings having failed at some point in the past. In IMO the pilot bearing should be replaced whenever you have access if the bearing has more than 50K miles on it. The cost is like $10 for a new bearing so you are far from breaking the bank by replacing it.
As far as time, 15ish years ago, I lost a pilot bearing while out on the road far from home in my old '74 T2. I started ripping things apart at 8:00am and by twelve noon I was ready for the road with a new pilot bearing, new clutch, and new rear main and tranny input seals, so we are not talking a lot of time here |
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