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Oil Pressure issue
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:32 am    Post subject: Re: Oil Pressure issue Reply with quote

oprn wrote:
Lots of times we would have a customer ask for a "calibrated test gauge" to do pressure testing on new process piping and vessels but not want to spend the $800 to $1100 or so to get a proper one. We would take 6 or 8 of your class 1A gauges, run them up with a deadweight tester and pick the best one. Then we would check it on the way up and on the way back down at 10 points in the range and record the results on a calibration form along with the serial number and last government approved inspection date of the deadweight tester used and send it with the gauge. The Boilers Branch accepted that in lieu of a proper test gauge.

raygreenwood wrote:
Also the tolerance is of "reading"....so as you mention..... plenty accurate. a + 0.5% of an 8 psi reading is 0.04 psi. If your gauge is getting to be off (and temperature can mess with it) ....thats a span of 0.08 psi. Just not important. If you are reading lower than 8 psi at idle.....these gauges are accurate enough to tell you that its too low Laughing Ray

I would like to point something out here that I believe you and many others are not clear on. In your example above you are calculating accuracy as "% of reading". This is incorrect unless you have a gauge that maxes out at 8psi. Gauges are generally listed as a "% of full scale" not "% of reading". Therefore a 100 psi gauge with an accuracy listed of 0.5% "OF FULL SCALE" could read 1/2 psi off anywhere on that scale from bottom to top and be in spec.

Instruments with an accuracy listed as "% of reading" are in a whole different accuracy class and much much higher price range. That is "Test Gauge" accuracy.

There, now you know and no one will fool you! Wink

Getting off topic here, sorry!


I know the difference. I am perfectly clear on gauge classifications.

All but the gauge I listed as class 1A with no certification.....are % of reading.....and NOT percent of scale. Again.....its not just "test class" or "process" or "industrial".....its which rating system the gauges are classified within.

The nomenclature listing "full scale" on these gauges......means that the entire scale is included in the accuracy rating and not just "middle" of scale.

Test class gauges are expensive.....but not even close to what they were a decade ago.

Ray
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craigman
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: Oil Pressure issue Reply with quote

never understood this 10psi per 1K rpm "rule".. To me that is way too low. I prefer more than that. At 6K rpm I wanna see 80psi. Look at newer cars that go 200K plus miles. They all have high oil pressures.
I always blueprint my oil pumps, use sealant instead of a gasket, and always shim my oil control valve shut. I don't want any pressure loss.
Never had an oil related problem yet.
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Mberglo
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:34 am    Post subject: Re: Oil Pressure issue Reply with quote

craigman wrote:
never understood this 10psi per 1K rpm "rule".. To me that is way too low. I prefer more than that. At 6K rpm I wanna see 80psi. Look at newer cars that go 200K plus miles. They all have high oil pressures.
I always blueprint my oil pumps, use sealant instead of a gasket, and always shim my oil control valve shut. I don't want any pressure loss.
Never had an oil related problem yet.


How do you shim the control valve shut?
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craigman
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:49 am    Post subject: Re: Oil Pressure issue Reply with quote

Mberglo wrote:
craigman wrote:
never understood this 10psi per 1K rpm "rule".. To me that is way too low. I prefer more than that. At 6K rpm I wanna see 80psi. Look at newer cars that go 200K plus miles. They all have high oil pressures.
I always blueprint my oil pumps, use sealant instead of a gasket, and always shim my oil control valve shut. I don't want any pressure loss.
Never had an oil related problem yet.


How do you shim the control valve shut?


just stack a couple of washers between the spring and screw cap. Basically it just increases the spring pressure so much it won't open.
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Mberglo
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil Pressure issue Reply with quote

Changed oil to 15w40 and verified control valve is not stuck. No improvement, but raised idle to get light to go out. Reviewed engine paperwork, and appears he just reused the pump. I may buy a “blueprinted” pump from Samba classifieds
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Cusser
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil Pressure issue Reply with quote

craigman wrote:
never understood this 10psi per 1K rpm "rule".. To me that is way too low.

For me, just what I've observed with my VDO gauge with my 1835cc engine for 4 decades....
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oprn
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: Oil Pressure issue Reply with quote

Finally got your measurement. Too late I see.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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oprn
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: Oil Pressure issue Reply with quote

craigman wrote:
never understood this 10psi per 1K rpm "rule".. To me that is way too low.

You and 10,000 other guys that don't understand that oil protects engines by film strength not hydraulic pressure.
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Mberglo
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 4:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil Pressure issue Reply with quote

oprn wrote:
Finally got your measurement. Too late I see.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I appreciate you measuring that. I didn’t realize how easy it would be for the valve to fall out. I measured it and got 0.626 diameter, so it should be ok.
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RWK
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 4:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil Pressure issue Reply with quote

.626, a bit small..
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oprn
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil Pressure issue Reply with quote

I wonder if he reused the bearings too...
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Mberglo
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:38 am    Post subject: Re: Oil Pressure issue Reply with quote

Build sheet shows other typical rebuild parts such as bearings. I haven't spoken to him. Maybe he inspected it, cleaned it up and reused it. In any case, I think I'll order a new one and swap it out. I'm out of town for a couple of weeks, but will do this when I get home. Thanks for the help.
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Mberglo
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:05 am    Post subject: Re: Oil Pressure issue Reply with quote

I installed a mechanical oil pressure gauge and verified that I get the same readings as my electrical VDO. 0psi at hot idle is not what you want to see.

I ordered a new Schadek 26mm oil pump and removal tool. When I pulled the old oil pump out, I was surprised to find it was 21mm! That gave me hope that I might just be on to something.

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With the new 26mm pump, Bus now has 40psi at cold idle, 30psi at 220degrees down the highway, and 10psi at a hot idle. Much better.

It makes me wonder what size pump came on this bus originally. Stud length indicates it may have come with the 21mm pump. Bus is a 71 for reminders, and I have reason to believe the case is original.
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oprn
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil Pressure issue Reply with quote

Yes that would be the stock size oil pump.
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modok
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil Pressure issue Reply with quote

I'm not sure about they "year" model year vs production date, body vs engine....ect

but I assume...that the 21mm oil pump matched the single relief oil system.
I don't think a dual relief oiling system ever had a 21mm pump Think
there was a 24mm pump also
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txoval
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil Pressure issue Reply with quote

Since it’s running good I’d leave it alone, but in the future you can DFL coat the gears
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Slow 1200
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:09 am    Post subject: Re: Oil Pressure issue Reply with quote

70 and early 71 engines had 21mm pumps with dual relief cases, then they went to 26mm pumps (and dished cam gears)
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oprn
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:54 am    Post subject: Re: Oil Pressure issue Reply with quote

Yes I was going from memory. My ‘71 SB had the flat cam gear and a 21mm oil pump.
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Cusser
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: Oil Pressure issue Reply with quote

oprn wrote:
Yes I was going from memory. My ‘71 SB had the flat cam gear and a 21mm oil pump.

My 1971 Convertible also had a flat cam gear, surprised me when I disassembled it in 2016. Good thing I'd waited to confirm before I ordered my
Maxi2 oil pump/filter.
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Ohio Tom
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:39 am    Post subject: Re: Oil Pressure issue Reply with quote

Stock oil relief spring should attempt to regulate at around 45psi.

If your cold oil pressure is lower than that, you most defiantly have an issue.

I bet the valve is stuck open.
Happens once in a while.
The plunger gets jamed up.

Remove plug and spring, plunger should fall out.

If it doesn't, fire up the motor for a few seconds. It should blow it out (with whatever debris was jamming it up).

Re-assemble and clean up your mess.
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