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SixVolt
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2004
Posts: 1136
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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 Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:25 am Post subject: Distributor drive spring (not compressed) |
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There are plenty of distributor drvie gear threads, but not one addressing this issue. I piulled my 009 from my 36 HP engine to reset the points and when trying to reinstall the distributor it won't seat. In examining the drive cavity, I noticed the distributor drive spring is sticking up (not compressed) in the hole. I checked another motor I have and it appears the spring in that motor is compressed below the two grooves making it easy to install the distributor and drop int into place. Admittedly, not the best pic, but here's what Im dealing with. You can see the spring sticking up. Any thoughts on this? Is there a proper way to compresss that spring to get the distributor in?
Last edited by SixVolt on Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Cusser
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Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31362
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Distributor drive spring (not compressed) |
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Hmmmm - the spring will only - and EASILY - compress when the distributor gets installed. Line up the rotor to the position it was before you removed it, and push/turn the distributor BODY a little as you push down. When you get close, you may need to turn/wiggle the rotor a small bit. The "dogs" on the bottom of the distributor shaft only fit into the drive gear ONE way.
For the life of me, I cannot understand why ANYONE would remove a distributor to install and adjust a new set of points. I have two vintage German 009 distributors and I NEVER remove them to do this.
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67rustavenger 
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Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 9762
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Distributor drive spring (not compressed) |
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Nevermind. Cusser posted almost the same idea as I had.
Carry on.
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evanfrucht
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Joined: July 24, 2016
Posts: 2180
Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:48 am Post subject: Re: Distributor drive spring (not compressed) |
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| Cusser wrote: |
For the life of me, I cannot understand why ANYONE would remove a distributor to install and adjust a new set of points. I have two vintage German 009 distributors and I NEVER remove them to do this. |
It's easier to work on on the bench. Less chance of dropping stuff and having it get lost in the heads. Less neck bending. Lazy man works twice as hard kinda thing 
If you remove the whole clamp with the distributor you don't have to re-adjust timing.
I do halfway agree with you but I've done it both ways and I'll play devil's advocate for now 
And yes the spring is normal, don't lose it. The spring isnt holding anything up. As Cusser suggested, it didn't fit into the hole because the tang was not lined up with the slot (tang fits into slot.) While distributor is sitting in there turn the rotor while applying very light downward pressure, it'll pop in.
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Last edited by evanfrucht on Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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SixVolt
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2004
Posts: 1136
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:54 am Post subject: Re: Distributor drive spring (not compressed) |
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| Cusser wrote: |
Hmmmm - the spring will only - and EASILY - compress when the distributor gets installed. Line up the rotor to the position it was before you removed it, and push/turn the distributor BODY a little as you push down. When you get close, you may need to turn/wiggle the rotor a small bit. The "dogs" on the bottom of the distributor shaft only fit into the drive gear ONE way.
For the life of me, I cannot understand why ANYONE would remove a distributor to install and adjust a new set of points. I have two vintage German 009 distributors and I NEVER remove them to do this. |
I appreciate your advice, and I will try that approach, but I don't know why the spring seems compressed in another motor I viewed. And why it seems inmpossible to get the distributor to seat after it always went in like butter.
As to why remove the distributor. I'm 65 years old and my eyes, even with cheaters, just aren't as good as they use to be. Also my big clumsy hands seem to handle it better whn its in a vice on a bench. There was a time when I could do many things with parts in or on a vehicle, but they seem to diminish with the passage of time. In any event, I appreciate the advice. |
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evanfrucht
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Joined: July 24, 2016
Posts: 2180
Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:56 am Post subject: Re: Distributor drive spring (not compressed) |
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100% that spring is normal. You can test fit it without the spring if you are curious but there is no point and if you do make sure you put it back in before final install. The spring serves an important purpose.
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earthquake
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Joined: January 10, 2008
Posts: 3984
Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor drive spring (not compressed) |
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I pull the distributor too, it much easier to set the points on the bench.
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SixVolt
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2004
Posts: 1136
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor drive spring (not compressed) |
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| Thanks for the replies. All is good. Idiot mistake by me. I pulled the distributor with the TDC mark in place w/ out checking rotor postion and the rotor was at #3. Once I rotated the distributor to put it at the #3 position in it dropped and locked. All good. Turned the engine to the real #1 TDC and timed it and all is good. Again, many thanks. Lesson that I should have known was re-learned. Always appreciate the samba help. |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor drive spring (not compressed) |
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| evanfrucht wrote: |
| Cusser wrote: |
For the life of me, I cannot understand why ANYONE would remove a distributor to install and adjust a new set of points. I have two vintage German 009 distributors and I NEVER remove them to do this. |
It's easier to work on on the bench. Less chance of dropping stuff and having it get lost in the heads. Less neck bending. Lazy man works twice as hard kinda thing
If you remove the whole clamp with the distributor you don't have to re-adjust timing.
I do halfway agree with you but I've done it both ways and I'll play devil's advocate for now
And yes the spring is normal, don't lose it. The spring isnt holding anything up. As Cusser suggested, it didn't fit into the hole because the tang was not lined up with the slot (tang fits into slot.) While distributor is sitting in there turn the rotor while applying very light downward pressure, it'll pop in. |
Totally agree. Its dirt simple...no turning the engine around or screwing with anything trying to line up on the cam. Leave teh clamp locked on the distributor and remove the single 13mm nut. Take the distributor out and adjust it on the bench...dead accurate and take maybe 1-2 minutes. Put it back in and install teh 13mm nut and timing has not changed.
I got into this habit for totally different reasons. When you are working on type 3 and 4 with D-jet you should be checking the rubbing block lube on the EFI trigger points ....during each check, setting or replacement of the ignition points. The distributor has to come out to access those.
Or....get rid of the points and dont worry about it. Ray |
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Ohio Tom
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Joined: February 09, 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: Marshallville Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:52 am Post subject: Re: Distributor drive spring (not compressed) |
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The spring can remain compressed on motors that are really sludged up badly.
The spring is encapsulated in crud. |
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bsairhead
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Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 3566
Location: viroqua wi.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor drive spring (not compressed) |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| evanfrucht wrote: |
| Cusser wrote: |
For the life of me, I cannot understand why ANYONE would remove a distributor to install and adjust a new set of points. I have two vintage German 009 distributors and I NEVER remove them to do this. |
It's easier to work on on the bench. Less chance of dropping stuff and having it get lost in the heads. Less neck bending. Lazy man works twice as hard kinda thing
If you remove the whole clamp with the distributor you don't have to re-adjust timing.
I do halfway agree with you but I've done it both ways and I'll play devil's advocate for now
And yes the spring is normal, don't lose it. The spring isnt holding anything up. As Cusser suggested, it didn't fit into the hole because the tang was not lined up with the slot (tang fits into slot.) While distributor is sitting in there turn the rotor while applying very light downward pressure, it'll pop in. |
Totally agree. Its dirt simple...no turning the engine around or screwing with anything trying to line up on the cam. Leave teh clamp locked on the distributor and remove the single 13mm nut. Take the distributor out and adjust it on the bench...dead accurate and take maybe 1-2 minutes. Put it back in and install teh 13mm nut and timing has not changed.
I got into this habit for totally different reasons. When you are working on type 3 and 4 with D-jet you should be checking the rubbing block lube on the EFI trigger points ....during each check, setting or replacement of the ignition points. The distributor has to come out to access those.
Or....get rid of the points and dont worry about it. Ray |
I have my spare distributor(with points) dwelled and timed with clamp installed. Have not needed it yet but if I do it will be an easy swap. |
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balljoint
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Joined: March 28, 2016
Posts: 164
Location: Tobago
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor drive spring (not compressed) |
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I can get a variance of 3-4* from just play in the hole on the clamp where it goes over the stud on the case.
For this reason when installing I make sure and turn it all the way anti clockwise, tighten the clamp to the case and then set timing, so that will be the max timing possible if i ever have to take it out and replace as a unit.
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Zundfolge1432
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Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12467
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor drive spring (not compressed) |
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| SixVolt wrote: |
| Thanks for the replies. All is good. Idiot mistake by me. I pulled the distributor with the TDC mark in place w/ out checking rotor postion and the rotor was at #3. Once I rotated the distributor to put it at the #3 position in it dropped and locked. All good. Turned the engine to the real #1 TDC and timed it and all is good. Again, many thanks. Lesson that I should have known was re-learned. Always appreciate the samba help. |
Since the drive gear and drive dog are offset they only fit one way, it’s Murphy proof, you don’t need to make a note of anything. Pull it work on the distributor standing up at the bench then drop it back in because it should fall into place. Although that spring needs to be there I’ve seen wrong springs like out of old ball point pen or even no spring at all. |
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bsairhead
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 3566
Location: viroqua wi.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor drive spring (not compressed) |
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| balljoint wrote: |
I can get a variance of 3-4* from just play in the hole on the clamp where it goes over the stud on the case.
For this reason when installing I make sure and turn it all the way anti clockwise, tighten the clamp to the case and then set timing, so that will be the max timing possible if i ever have to take it out and replace as a unit. |
When I set up my spare distributor I pondered the variance and checked the difference in timing from CW tight to CCW tight and found no discernable difference. As long as you set it up consistently it should not matter, but why anti clockwise? Or CCW as we say on this side of the pond. |
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balljoint
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2016
Posts: 164
Location: Tobago
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:49 am Post subject: Re: Distributor drive spring (not compressed) |
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You turn the dist CCW to advance timing, so in that position that will be the most timing you will ever get.
I'd rather have it 3-4* retard than 3-4* advanced over the set value if I ever forgot and tightened the bolt in a random position
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