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Peter D.
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2004
Posts: 718
Location: Stamford, CT
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 Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:48 am Post subject: Re: Newton Carpet Color Question |
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One small detail I noticed my '64 carpet kit lacks is holes for seat belt hardware. Probably because seat belts were a dealer installed option.
If anyone has installed 3 point belts in the tunnel and floor, I would love to see how you finished off or covered the holes you had to make. I might buy a pair of these escutcheons for the tunnel:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2183086
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2019 Golf Alltrack, '65 Ghia Coupe Restoration in Progress |
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sputnick60
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 22, 2007
Posts: 3916
Location: In Molinya Orbit
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Peter D.
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2004
Posts: 718
Location: Stamford, CT
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: Newton Carpet Color Question |
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My question is not really about how to install seat belts but more about how to finish off the carpet. The last thing I want is a jagged hole and a bolt sticking out after installing seat belts. If anyone has some pictures of how they finished off bolts that go into the tunnel, for example, that would be helpful.
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2019 Golf Alltrack, '65 Ghia Coupe Restoration in Progress |
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crocteau
Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2005
Posts: 1204
Location: Philaburbia
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: Newton Carpet Color Question |
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| Peter D. wrote: |
| If anyone has some pictures of how they finished off bolts that go into the tunnel, for example, that would be helpful. |
I think you're on the right track with the escutcheons you posted earlier. This is getting away from the original topic, but since you asked so nicely here's a photo of how my seatbelt latch bolts are finished off with acorn caps:
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rbsurfguy
Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2008
Posts: 1757
Location: Fairfax, Northern Virginia Formerly Huntington Beach, SoCal
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:22 am Post subject: Re: Newton Carpet Color Question |
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I've realized I am in the same situation, except not on the tunnel, but on the floor behind the seats where the seatbelt is bolted down there. I can't find any place to mount, either because the floors pans were replaced or the rockers, and that place was closed up. Any clear pics of that mounting place, or recommend what to do for mounting the floor located seatbelt connections?
Thanks, Jeff
_________________
1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold
See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight= |
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Vladiiiii
Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2019
Posts: 518
Location: Munich, Germany
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:24 am Post subject: Re: Newton Carpet Color Question |
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Depending on the floor pan situation, I think adding a FIA-approved reinforcement plate on the outside of the pan, may be the way to go.
They cost next to nothing (I got 2x for something like 10 euros).
If it's already painted / waxed / undercoated, maybe some work to strip that area, but maybe safer in the long run, and nicer than just a bolt and a big a&& washer through the pan.
Vlad
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Vlad's 72 Ghia (Once in a Lifetime Restoration topic)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9237746#9237746 |
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Era Vulgaris
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2012
Posts: 1677
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: Newton Carpet Color Question |
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| rbsurfguy wrote: |
I've realized I am in the same situation, except not on the tunnel, but on the floor behind the seats where the seatbelt is bolted down there. I can't find any place to mount, either because the floors pans were replaced or the rockers, and that place was closed up. Any clear pics of that mounting place, or recommend what to do for mounting the floor located seatbelt connections?
Thanks, Jeff |
I just welded seat belt anchors onto my new Volkstory pans, before I painted them. I've got my floorpan at home now, finishing it up, painting and detailing it, while my body is being primered and painted at the body shop. So I just went through installing these. I used these measurements from Evil_Fiz as a guide for where to place it. It basically lines up with that third-from-the-rear body mount hole.
Here are the measurements of where to drill the hole (the original drawing, minus measurements, of the pan was from a Beetle, so ignore the locations of the corrugations, since they're different for Ghias):
My pan:
These are the ones I bought.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/262324219856?hash=item3d13bdefd0:g:a90AAOSwZIxezAo5
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Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD
Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue |
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Peter D.
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2004
Posts: 718
Location: Stamford, CT
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: Newton Carpet Color Question |
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I know we're getting really off topic now (sorry!) but I do think the carpet installation is related to safe seat belt installation. So it's important to get it right for both safety and aesthetics.
Here's a link to the beetle forum on how 3-Point seat belts are installed and it's the same for a Ghia: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=614896
The retainer in the floor pictured above is exactly how I did mine. I just kept the original retainer from my old pans. The difference is the size of original the hole which takes an oversized VW bolt. I'm going to have to get a threaded insert to adapt to the smaller bolts on modern seat belts. That's not the case with those EBay sourced plates.
Getting back to carpet, the issue is cutting away enough of the carpet so there's a tight fit between the carpet, the L-Bracket, the floor, and the bolt, but not so much that the cut edges are exposed. If there's an accident, I don't trust the compression of a the carpet between the hardware to keep the seat belt base from coming loose.
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2019 Golf Alltrack, '65 Ghia Coupe Restoration in Progress |
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Exnermobiles
Samba Member
Joined: September 14, 2010
Posts: 64
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:26 am Post subject: Re: Newton Carpet Color Question |
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Regarding the lower seat belt attach point here you’ll find few pictures of an original pre-1965 tunnel carpet (141 863 311 C) with small round grommets for the seat belts:
I think originally these grommets were completely covered with the plastic escutcheons (311 857 781):
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2183086
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1962 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1958 Plymouth Belvedere Sport Coupe
1959 Dodge Sierra STW |
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rbsurfguy
Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2008
Posts: 1757
Location: Fairfax, Northern Virginia Formerly Huntington Beach, SoCal
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:03 am Post subject: Re: Newton Carpet Color Question |
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Thank you all for the seatbelt mounting information. Sorry for straying from the original topic, but as mentioned, it's important when installing the carpets to know how to properly mount the belts. The information provided helps as I am waiting for delivery of my Newton carpets.
Now it looks like I need to find someone to weld in those lower mounting plates!
Jeff
_________________
1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold
See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight= |
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crocteau
Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2005
Posts: 1204
Location: Philaburbia
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:49 am Post subject: Re: Newton Carpet Color Question |
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| rbsurfguy wrote: |
Thank you all for the seatbelt mounting information. Sorry for straying from the original topic, but as mentioned, it's important when installing the carpets to know how to properly mount the belts. The information provided helps as I am waiting for delivery of my Newton carpets.
Now it looks like I need to find someone to weld in those lower mounting plates!
Jeff |
While opinions and preferences vary, it may be worthwhile, at least in our neck of the woods, to see what the U.S. regulations for seat belt anchoring hardware have to say per 49 CFR § 571.209 - Standard No. 209; Seat belt assemblies, in accordance with SAE Recommended Practice J800c (1973). The CFR can be opaque, but these citations are relatively straightforward, i.e., you won’t need a law degree get the skinny.  You decide. 
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/571.209
https://law.resource.org/pub/us/cfr/ibr/005/sae.j800c.1973.pdf |
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Peter D.
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2004
Posts: 718
Location: Stamford, CT
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: Newton Carpet Color Question |
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I wish I could get my hands on these grommets to sew into my carpet. I guess I could go to an auto upholstery shop and see what they can do.
| Exnermobiles wrote: |
Regarding the lower seat belt attach point here you’ll find few pictures of an original pre-1965 tunnel carpet (141 863 311 C) with small round grommets for the seat belts:
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2019 Golf Alltrack, '65 Ghia Coupe Restoration in Progress |
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rcooled
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2008
Posts: 2504
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: Newton Carpet Color Question |
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| Peter D. wrote: |
| I guess I could go to an auto upholstery shop and see what they can do. |
I had a shop remake these heater outlet grommets.
They're sewn in, but still look much better than what they replaced ↓
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'63 Ragtop (current)
'65 Ghia coupe (totaled)
'67 Ghia convertible (current)
'69.5 Ghia convertible and
'62, '63, '65, '69 Bugs (all long gone)
Last edited by rcooled on Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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The aussie Trimmer
Samba Member
Joined: July 05, 2006
Posts: 385
Location: Western Australia
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Newton Carpet Color Question |
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If you don't have any luck in the US; I'd be happy to make them for you, all I'd need is sizes. I've been making the carpet grommets down under for years.
Just my observation, the heater knob was oblong not round.
Kev.
| Peter D. wrote: |
I wish I could get my hands on these grommets to sew into my carpet. I guess I could go to an auto upholstery shop and see what they can do.
| Exnermobiles wrote: |
Regarding the lower seat belt attach point here you’ll find few pictures of an original pre-1965 tunnel carpet (141 863 311 C) with small round grommets for the seat belts:
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Cheers,
Kev.
Drive with your lights on (Be aware be seen) help others GIVE Blood |
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Peter D.
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2004
Posts: 718
Location: Stamford, CT
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: Newton Carpet Color Question |
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| The aussie Trimmer wrote: |
If you don't have any luck in the US; I'd be happy to make them for you, all I'd need is sizes. I've been making the carpet grommets down under for years.
Just my observation, the heater knob was oblong not round.
Kev.
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That would be great. Maybe you could make the heater, shifter, and break grommet too to match? I'll send you a message.
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2019 Golf Alltrack, '65 Ghia Coupe Restoration in Progress |
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Peter D.
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2004
Posts: 718
Location: Stamford, CT
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: Newton Carpet Color Question |
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Here's my carpet, upgraded with new grommets from The Aussie Trimmer. They look great!
If anyone is considering Newton Carpet just be specific on the type of grommets you'd like installed. The hand-sewn ones actually don't look bad at all but it just wasn't my preference.
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