Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Shortening a shift rod for a Dune Buggy
Forum Index -> Kit Car/Fiberglass Buggy/356 Replica Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
joescoolcustoms
Samba Member


Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
joescoolcustoms is offline 

PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 12:14 pm    Post subject: Shortening a shift rod for a Dune Buggy Reply with quote

I see this question a lot on here and facebook, "how do you shorten a shift rod?"
Instead of adding this to my build thread, I decided to make a separate thread for just this topic. As I usually state, this is not the only way to do this task, there are several ways to do it. But like those favorite Tee Shirts, favorite old TV show, best Pizza Joint, this is the way I like to do it.

To start with, do you actually know how all this stuff works? The best place to start is at the beginning. Once you know the parts involved, no matter your method, it is easier to understand what ALL needs to be done.

The shifter bolts down to the tunnel, and everything below it is a mystery. I move the stick thing in some sort of a pattern and release the clutch and hopefully the buggy goes, if I can keep the engine running. Some buggies feel like it is a stick in a bucket of water I am stirring.

There is a shift rod that is hung in the tunnel right below the shifter and it runs to the rear and hooks up to the transaxle. This shift rod transfers the shifter movement in exactly the opposite direction you moved the shifter in, and pulls/pushes the shift forks inside the trans. Since the leverage thing changes the big movement of the shifter on top to subtle movements on the trans nose cone, this shift rod needs to be spot on for nice and pleasant shifting to happen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


What you are looking at above is a shifter bolted to a shift rod hanger plate I pulled out of a tunnel I was scrapping. If you look closely at the photos, the items to note, and the proper position of installation. The shift rod should be apparent, as the shifter. The white badminton birdie looking thingy is a teflon style shift rod bushing. Notice on it is a spring clip that keeps it tight around the shift rod. Most people do not even see the spring clip, and they are usually buried in grease at the head of the shift rod, hidden from view. If yours feels like a stick in a bucket of water while shifting, this worn bushing is likely the cause. And if you are trying to diagnose a poorly shifting transaxle that may/may not be popping out of gear, this needs to be in good shape to properly find your other issues. And if you are reading this because you are shortening a chassis, replace this bushing anyway, they are cheap. Very early chassis did not use this shift rod bushing, it is metal-to-metal. VW added this to help quiet down the interior of the vehicle, and to help tighten the shifting.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Next in line is the shift rod coupler. It is located at the front of the transaxle, inside the tunnel, under the oval looking access cover plate. This is where the Squirrels store their acorns before you bought this chassis form the PO. In the photo above, you can see three different items. Two different couplers, and a adjustable coupler device. To note about the couplers, both the round and the squarish looking ones are stock style VW. the round unit is the early version, and the square one is about a '66 and later version. I personally like the older version because it is easier to service in that small hole with my big man-hands. I advise to stay away from the red square units as I have seen them crumble like the red steering rag joints, (another topic), and then you are stuck. The round units do wear out, but you can still somewhat shift and get home/help.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The adjustable coupler welds into the shift rod, and can adjust both in length, and radially, (twist). So it can be fine tuned to shift just right. If you just cut and reweld the shift rod, if you get just a smidge off, it can cause shifting issues like raking gears, popping out of gear, not engaging all gears. This adjustment piece will allow fine tuning to get that length and radial position just right.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


There is three parts to this adjuster. A lock nut, the "hub" and the adjuster/coupler. In the above photo you can see the three parts, but more notably is the three black sharpie marks on the threaded portion. Those three marks represent the position of the hub when fully shortened, (right most mark), when fully lengthened, and enough threads left in the hub to have strength, (left most mark), and then the center mark represents the middle position that allows for adjustment either way. When measuring to cut the shift rod, I mock up the adjuster in that center position, so if I am off, I can shorten/lengthen as needed.

Now that you know the players in this game, time to lay the cards on the table and get it done.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Lay the shift rod on the top of the tunnel, center the "cup" in the shifter hole. This is neutral position.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Install the coupler of your choice, (Adjusters are made for either the late square or the early round couplers) on the transaxle shift rod stub inside the access hole, and also the adjuster centered in it's travel, as described above. Put the transaxle in neutral position too.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Then transfer the measurement from the adjuster up to the shift rod tube. This is your cut line on the shift rod tube.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Before cutting the shift rod tube, I drill holes in it to rosette weld the adjuster in place.. Then cut the tube.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Then weld the shift rod tube to the adjuster. Be careful of the heat you use, so you do not burn through and weld the threaded portion to the hub. I liberally use antiseize on the threaded portion to help stop any thread seize from welding. Also, the hub has two opposing flat "wrench" spots so after you adjust the shifter, you can hold it and tighten the lock nut. I orient those flat spots vertical so as to get a wrench on later.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Since the shift rod has to feed rear first through that bushing on the shift rod hanger below the shifter, the welds need smoothed so they slip through.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Paint the shift rod and it is ready to install and adjust for a perfect shift.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
stevemariott
Samba Member


Joined: November 09, 2003
Posts: 1049
Location: Portland, OR
stevemariott is offline 

PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 1:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Shortening a shift rod for a Dune Buggy Reply with quote

Thanks so much for posting this. My buggy is all blown apart for some updates, and a new bushing / adjustable coupler is on my to-do list.
_________________
1963 Manx copy
1968 Bus
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Tugmaster
Samba Member


Joined: September 26, 2011
Posts: 127
Location: Bear Valley Springs, Ca
Tugmaster is offline 

PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 8:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Shortening a shift rod for a Dune Buggy Reply with quote

Great tech post. Thank you!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Busted Knuckle Garage
Samba Member


Joined: November 22, 2019
Posts: 71
Location: Northlawrence Ohio
Busted Knuckle Garage is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 5:41 am    Post subject: Re: Shortening a shift rod for a Dune Buggy Reply with quote

Great post Joe. Thank you for taking the time to educate us novice builders.
_________________
Frank
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BL3Manx
Samba Member


Joined: August 29, 2006
Posts: 6767
Location: Northern California
BL3Manx is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: Shortening a shift rod for a Dune Buggy Reply with quote

Good thread.

I'd add that the dog leg in the rod is meant to clear the tubes under the emergency brake. So if the shifter location is relocated farther aft on the tunnel, the rod needs to be shortened the same distance at its forward end in order to keep the dogleg in the same relative location. So the cup needs to be cut off, the rod shortened the distance the shifter was moved, then the cup welded back on in the same vertical orientation. This is a thread I showed how to move the shifter 5" closer to the driver https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=520044


Also

For initial set up after the rod is shortened rod with the adjuster installed, first assemble the shift rod into the tunnel with the cup located directly under the center of the shifter mount hole. Install the shift lever straight up. With the trans in neutral, assemble/connect the coupler and snug the lock nut. You should be very close to getting all gears equally. If further adjustment is required, make necessary side to side or fore-aft adjustments by loosening lock nut and turning threaded adjuster (don't relocate the shift lever!) Use Red Locktite on the adjuster and lock nut threads when you make the final adjustments

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Last edited by BL3Manx on Mon May 11, 2020 9:15 am; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Rockbound
Samba Member


Joined: September 06, 2017
Posts: 303
Location: Pennsylvania
Rockbound is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 9:04 am    Post subject: Re: Shortening a shift rod for a Dune Buggy Reply with quote

nice! should be a sticky
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Dale M.
Samba Member


Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20365
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
Dale M. is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 11:25 am    Post subject: Re: Shortening a shift rod for a Dune Buggy Reply with quote

Technically I do pretty much same thing... I measure distance from divot in transaxle shift rod (hockey stick) to center of shifter opening in tunnel and mock up all the rod, and adjuster and coupler to get same dimension... Always be sure when locating the insert in rod that the wrench flats are VERTICAL as mentioned above...

The hole in shift rod to weld adjust in is good, but I just cut a couple of "V" notches in end of rod and braze adjuster body in.... In the end it all does same thing....

The real trick is getting rod back in tunnel..... To achieve that I extend rod forward with a piece of PVC pipe with a notch cut in it to cradle "elbow" and a little masking tape and I can cut it loose as tape passes opening for shifter....

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
joescoolcustoms
Samba Member


Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
joescoolcustoms is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Shortening a shift rod for a Dune Buggy Reply with quote

Dale M. wrote:

The real trick is getting rod back in tunnel..... To achieve that I extend rod forward with a piece of PVC pipe with a notch cut in it to cradle "elbow" and a little masking tape and I can cut it loose as tape passes opening for shifter....

Dale


Ha Ha! This reminds me of my 4th buggy. I bought it show winning "Ready to go" so I could have a buggy for MOTB while I was still working on Number 3 buggy. Turned out to be one of those PO nightmares, that I rebuilt everything including the transaxle on after MOTB.

Anyway, it had a rattle I could not find while at MOTB, like to drove me crazy. After getting home, and starting the rebuild so I could sell it, it needed a shift rod bushing. So out comes the shift rod. I found the rattle. The PO welded a small front torsion beam leaf spring to the forward surface of the shifter cup, to use in helping guide the shift rod home. Then left it there. That thing would wiggle side to side and rattle inside the tunnel.

We need another thread of PO hacks.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mcdragracer
Samba Member


Joined: December 30, 2007
Posts: 714
Location: Cally
mcdragracer is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: Shortening a shift rod for a Dune Buggy Reply with quote

Don't know if I missed it here, but when cutting a shift rod do you just cut the length from the back end only to shorten it?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BL3Manx
Samba Member


Joined: August 29, 2006
Posts: 6767
Location: Northern California
BL3Manx is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 5:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Shortening a shift rod for a Dune Buggy Reply with quote

mcdragracer wrote:
Don't know if I missed it here, but when cutting a shift rod do you just cut the length from the back end only to shorten it?


If you are either installing an adjustable shift rod end or are shortening the shift rod to fit a shortened chassis(for a buggy), yes just shorten the shift rod at the rear end.

However, if you have moved the gear shift lever aft on the tunnel (often done on buggies and kit cars with lower and farther aft seating), then you must cut off the cup, shorten the shift rod just behind the cup the same dimension you moved the shift lever mount on the tunnel and then reweld the cup.

Doing this keeps the bends in the shift rod in the same location relative to the underside of the emergency brake lever and cables. The bend is there to clear the cables.

dlyle recently showed how he did this on his Vokaro thread. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=749557&start=160


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mcdragracer
Samba Member


Joined: December 30, 2007
Posts: 714
Location: Cally
mcdragracer is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 5:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Shortening a shift rod for a Dune Buggy Reply with quote

I'm doing this for a friend of mine, it's an early shift rod, and what they have in there now it looks like they have a universal joint that was welded on the end but we're doing kind of a complete restoration on this buggy and building the motor, and I've done this before way in the past when I worked at a v w shop I just don't remember anymore how I did it, but we're getting the adjuster to weld on the end he did get a brand new shift rod from Wolfsburg West but I think I'm going to use the original shift rod that's in the buggy now cut the end off and weld the adjuster on the end, I just didn't remember if I had to cut a section out or if I could just cut the end of the shift rod and weld the adapter piece in
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
sailtexas186548
Samba Member


Joined: December 01, 2014
Posts: 423
Location: Kemah, Tx
sailtexas186548 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 6:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Shortening a shift rod for a Dune Buggy Reply with quote

I used an aftermarket shift rod that is totally straight, it shifts fine
_________________
it's more fun loud and dirty


Last edited by sailtexas186548 on Tue May 11, 2021 10:38 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mcdragracer
Samba Member


Joined: December 30, 2007
Posts: 714
Location: Cally
mcdragracer is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Shortening a shift rod for a Dune Buggy Reply with quote

Good to know, I was hoping it wasn't too critical, I've done a few of these over 20 years ago, well I've got a new shift rod in case I screw the one that's inside the tunnel up LOL
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
clonebug
Samba Member


Joined: January 29, 2005
Posts: 4026
Location: NW Washington
clonebug is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 8:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Shortening a shift rod for a Dune Buggy Reply with quote

If you use the newer style connector it will act like a universal joint and when you cut the back off the shift rod it will still align nicely.
You can angle the connection down slightly without putting it in a bind.
_________________
vwracerdave wrote:

Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see.


Paul.H wrote:
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month



My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash


http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
speedbuggyaaron
Samba Member


Joined: September 11, 2021
Posts: 6
Location: Valparaiso, IN
speedbuggyaaron is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Shortening a shift rod for a Dune Buggy Reply with quote

Can anyone explain why the adjuster isn’t machined to fit tightly inside the shift rod? Is the fitment only loose with aftermarket shift rods or with original shift rods as well?

I bought a new adjuster and a shift rod from Appletree because the previous owner did some horrible welding on the shift rod that was installed in the buggy I bought. Shifting was “crunchy”. Found no Teflon bushing in the bracket and decided to pull the whole thing and redo it. Turns out, the welds were not ground down far enough, and pulling the shift rod out through the bracket was an EPIC tug-o-war. That shift rod would have never fit through a bushing.

I figured I would buy all the correct new parts, build a brand new shift rod and keep the original as a backup after carefully grinding down the previous owner’s welds to original shift rod diameter.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
sailtexas186548
Samba Member


Joined: December 01, 2014
Posts: 423
Location: Kemah, Tx
sailtexas186548 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Shortening a shift rod for a Dune Buggy Reply with quote

mine was loose it an aftermarket rod, never tired in a stock shortened rod. works fine with a full weld (gotta grind the weld smooth to pass through the shift bushing FYI
_________________
it's more fun loud and dirty
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Kit Car/Fiberglass Buggy/356 Replica All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.