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mikelars Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2019 Posts: 238 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:12 pm Post subject: Intake Manifold leak on 1-2 - drop engine? |
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It appears I have an intake manifold leak on the 1-2 side where the dual Weber IDF 40 manifold meets the DP head. When idling if I spray carb cleaner on the top/back of the location where the manifold meets the head, it noticeably changes the idle.
I can see the near side manifold stud bolt and can feel the far side bolt if the spark plug wires are out - so my question is: do I need to drop the engine to fix the manifold leak? This is a split bus, so the space is tight around the carb and it’s manifold.
Have people taken off the intake manifold, replaced the gasket and reattached the manifold without dropping the engine? (Basically should I attempt this with the engine in place?)
I am mainly concerned about either dropping something in there or not being able to reach the studs/bolts well enough - or worse yet - maybe it is something worse than a gasket leak, like a crack or something and I am not sure I would see it…
I think I even hear a periodic “hiss” out of that side at idle, and the carb cleaner definitely is getting in there and changing the idle…. The 3-4 side does not do that at all… _________________ Here is my 1961 Beetle Restoration:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLW_2wBCs4Ny2qXEPvdnfvEzN42T8JA8zO
Here is my 1966 Split Bus - Restoration Channel:
https://youtube.com/channel/UCPBRysmvrJlif2wzwEwiuwQ
2332 Torque Motor Build
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLW_2wBCs4Ny2HwsKM9QT4LFpcSqP3QG0p
Engine Rebuild 1968cc Playlist:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLW_2wBCs4Ny1JbZ2EgJQQ2awfo0koZRqz |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9759 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: Intake Manifold leak on 1-2 - drop engine? |
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I'd try to remove the manifold before dropping an engine for a vacuum leak.
I have never worked on a Bus. So I can't speak to the difficulty in the engine compartment.
In a beetle. You have about a 1-1.5" circle between the firewall and the carb body. Where you can get a socket and extension on the forward manifold nuts. It's a tricky location.
I use a 1/4 drive 11" extension with a socket on the end. I reach down on that very small space and guide the socket onto the manifold nut. After that, I attach the ratchet to the extension and remove the nut.
It takes practice. But after a few times removing the manifolds. It becomes easier.
Can't you reach around the sides of the manifolds in a bus engine compartment to get to the nuts? _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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mikelars Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2019 Posts: 238 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: Intake Manifold leak on 1-2 - drop engine? |
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I can reach the nuts on both sides. I cannot get a small 12mm socket onto the nut or a the box side of a combination wrench, so my only choice is an open 12mm wrench which should work. The bend in the intake manifold kind of covers up the nut at an angle so you can not quite get a socket or box wrench on there.
I think I will give it a try tomorrow - and just be very careful not to drop anything in the intake ports. It seems like a lower flanged exhaust nut would allow a socket or box wrench to fit on there, so I might consider swapping the nut.
Since I cannot see where the vacuum leak is, I don’t really know what problem I am solving, so I am assuming with a thick fiber gasket and a properly seated intake manifold, that it will seal up.
Might put on some permatex aviation or something (non RTV) that can be used on intake manifolds… _________________ Here is my 1961 Beetle Restoration:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLW_2wBCs4Ny2qXEPvdnfvEzN42T8JA8zO
Here is my 1966 Split Bus - Restoration Channel:
https://youtube.com/channel/UCPBRysmvrJlif2wzwEwiuwQ
2332 Torque Motor Build
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLW_2wBCs4Ny2HwsKM9QT4LFpcSqP3QG0p
Engine Rebuild 1968cc Playlist:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLW_2wBCs4Ny1JbZ2EgJQQ2awfo0koZRqz |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76907 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: Intake Manifold leak on 1-2 - drop engine? |
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12mm swivel socket on a locking extension.
_________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9759 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Intake Manifold leak on 1-2 - drop engine? |
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When you have a chance. Search for some 8mm x 1.5 thread pitch flange nuts.
they have 10mm hex on them. ACN carries them. Much easier to get a socket on those smaller nuts.
I use them on intake manifolds and exhaust flanges. Much less of a headache!
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/ACN-Flanged-Racing-Intake-and-Exhaust-Nut-8-x-10mm-p/acn-nuts.htm
Buy 24. You'll be glad you did. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76907 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: Intake Manifold leak on 1-2 - drop engine? |
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67rustavenger wrote: |
When you have a chance. Search for some 8mm x 1.5 thread pitch flange nuts. |
M8 x 1.25 pitch.
These are all M8 nuts.
_________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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txoval Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2004 Posts: 3552 Location: The Woodlands, TX
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: Intake Manifold leak on 1-2 - drop engine? |
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I have never worked on a bus, but when you remove the carburetor you should have more room to reach the nut.
You may have to make a special socket or box end…grind the outside so that it can fit over the nut…may have to heat up the wrench and bend the head as well.
Flare nut wrenches are another option…
These are nice too
https://www.amazon.com/GearWrench-84918N-Metric-Un...amp;sr=8-3
Last edited by txoval on Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76907 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Intake Manifold leak on 1-2 - drop engine? |
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txoval wrote: |
but when you remove the carburetor you should have more room to reach the nut. |
That's what i do on my Beetle. The IDAs are huge but if you put them on after its easy.
There should be plenty of room in a bus. I recently installed this with EFI in a bus.
_________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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mikelars Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2019 Posts: 238 Location: North Carolina
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mikelars Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2019 Posts: 238 Location: North Carolina
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76907 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:26 pm Post subject: Re: Intake Manifold leak on 1-2 - drop engine? |
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If your heads are ported and the manifolds match ported, you'll need to trim any store bought gaskets.
I like the Berg gaskets... plenty of meat to them.
_________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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mikelars Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2019 Posts: 238 Location: North Carolina
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txoval Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2004 Posts: 3552 Location: The Woodlands, TX
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: Intake Manifold leak on 1-2 - drop engine? |
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What heads do you have? |
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mikelars Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2019 Posts: 238 Location: North Carolina
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txoval Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2004 Posts: 3552 Location: The Woodlands, TX
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Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:41 am Post subject: Re: Intake Manifold leak on 1-2 - drop engine? |
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If you’re not in a huge rush, order a set of intake gaskets from CB or Berg…or call Tims
They are cheap and can be shipped express if needed. Don’t use the stock metal gasket. |
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mikelars Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2019 Posts: 238 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:38 am Post subject: Re: Intake Manifold leak on 1-2 - drop engine? |
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Ok - very happy - fixed this all before 8:30am:
1. Ground down my 12mm box wrench to be thin
2. Removed larger 12mm nuts - a pain to get at the back one
3. Retrieve back nut/washer with a magnet (didn’t want this in the port!)
3. Disconnected linkage to 1-2 carb
4. Lifted carb and manifold up and to the back (still otherwise connected)
5. Made a thick gasket from Remflex (I had thin metal and thin fiber ones, but this Remflex is pretty thick and I read about people being happy with it)
6. Slipped the fat gasket in there and manifold on top seated well
7. Used copper exhaust bolts with thin washers because they have a rounded top I can get the box wrench onto easily. Tightened down
8. Reconnected everything
9. Started engine and sprayed carb cleaner - NO LEAK!
Then when I measured the carbs with the snail, the one I fixed was pulling like 8, so I had to synch them as best I could to 5.5.
_________________ Here is my 1961 Beetle Restoration:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLW_2wBCs4Ny2qXEPvdnfvEzN42T8JA8zO
Here is my 1966 Split Bus - Restoration Channel:
https://youtube.com/channel/UCPBRysmvrJlif2wzwEwiuwQ
2332 Torque Motor Build
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLW_2wBCs4Ny2HwsKM9QT4LFpcSqP3QG0p
Engine Rebuild 1968cc Playlist:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLW_2wBCs4Ny1JbZ2EgJQQ2awfo0koZRqz |
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mikelars Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2019 Posts: 238 Location: North Carolina
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KennyMac1967 Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2018 Posts: 9 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: Intake Manifold leak on 1-2 - drop engine? |
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Glenn wrote: |
67rustavenger wrote: |
When you have a chance. Search for some 8mm x 1.5 thread pitch flange nuts. |
M8 x 1.25 pitch.
These are all M8 nuts.
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I highly recommend the 11mm 8x1.25 nuts for the studs at the base of the dual carb intake manifolds. Also, I invested in a set of Snap-On 12-point 1/4" drive sockets and wobble extensions of various lengths 35 years ago while working as an A&P Mechanic at Rocky Mountain Airways and this was the best tool investment I ever made. That's how I install and remove these nuts. Tight quarters in a bus, much tighter in a beetle! _________________ VW Parts Hoarder |
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vanorak Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2013 Posts: 96 Location: Across the pond
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Intake Manifold leak on 1-2 - drop engine? |
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mikelars wrote: |
Ok - very happy - fixed this all before 8:30am:
1. Ground down my 12mm box wrench to be thin
2. Removed larger 12mm nuts - a pain to get at the back one
3. Retrieve back nut/washer with a magnet (didn’t want this in the port!)
3. Disconnected linkage to 1-2 carb
4. Lifted carb and manifold up and to the back (still otherwise connected)
5. Made a thick gasket from Remflex (I had thin metal and thin fiber ones, but this Remflex is pretty thick and I read about people being happy with it)
6. Slipped the fat gasket in there and manifold on top seated well
7. Used copper exhaust bolts with thin washers because they have a rounded top I can get the box wrench onto easily. Tightened down
8. Reconnected everything
9. Started engine and sprayed carb cleaner - NO LEAK!
Then when I measured the carbs with the snail, the one I fixed was pulling like 8, so I had to synch them as best I could to 5.5.
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I've a collection of bent spanners, shaved sockets, bent and shaved ring spanners that fit sockets., screwdrivers with reground ends... VW 'Special tools' Hope everything owrks out with the new heads....bet you can't wait |
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nsracing Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2003 Posts: 9462 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2023 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Intake Manifold leak on 1-2 - drop engine? |
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There is more room in the bus than a bug. You can sleep in the engine compartment in a bus.
Them pesky fiber gaskets do not last. They get hard and crack.
If I do not want to be worrying about intake leaks between head and manifold, I use brass sheets. YOu can get them in skinny gauges and just make some and stack 2-3 sheets to match your manifold. All you need is a hand shear. I spray w/ copper sealer = DONE!
Don't anyone ever accuse me of not sharing. Enjoy - |
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