Typ 82 Repro

[fossil]

A great project!

Just a small remark: In my native German "dark yellow" is "Dunkelgelb", not "Dunklegelb".

Normally the colour Dunkelgelb has the RAL - number 7028. However there have been 3 different tones of this colour. I have here a description from the website www.militaerlacke.de (they provide paints [I am in no way affiliated with them]) that I have translated automatically with Deepl:

"The colour RAL 7028 was changed several times during the war years.

*According to our research, the original standard colour for agricultural machines RAL 7028 Dark Yellow 1was not used by the Reichswehr and the Wehrmacht. However, it is safe to assume that this colour was tested.

*RAL 7028 Dark Yellow Edition 1944 was produced from October 1944 and used on vehicles and equipment. The colour corresponds to RAL 7028 Dunkelgelb 1 from the 1930s and appears darker than RAL 7028 Dunkelgelb and more brownish than Dunkelgelb according to sample, almost ochre.

*In 1943, with the Wehrmacht Communication 1943 No. 181 of February 1943, a new colour scheme for Wehrmacht vehicles and guns was officially introduced after an extensive trial period (first uses are documented from the beginning of 1942). However, this was the second variant of RAL 7028, called RAL 7028 Dunkelgelb nach Muster. This colour was clearly more yellow and somewhat lighter than Dunkelgelb 1 and was not included in the RAL colour register.

*In March 1943 the dark yellow according to sample was changed again. The new colour was simply called RAL 7028 Dunkelgelb and was in use until late summer / autumn 1944 when it was repainted. It is somewhat darker and less yellow than the Dunkelgelb nach Muster, and has a very slight rust tinge. Denecke speaks of Dunkelgelb 3, the historically correct name is simply RAL 7028 Dunkelgelb.

For the collector this means that the offered RAL 7028 Dark Yellow Edition 1944 can be used for vehicles and military material that should represent the period of the Reichswehr / Wehrmacht until 1941 (in which the colour was used for testing purposes) and from October 1944 (minus a few months before as this was also a testing phase!) until the end of the war.

RAL 7028 Dark Yellow was to be used on vehicles and objects manufactured between March 1943 and October 1944. Certainly various manufacturers still had stocks of this colour after October 1944, so that this colour can still represent situations until the end of the war.

In general terms, Dunkelgelb 1 , aka Dunkelgelb 1944 existed throughout the war. According to the Army Weapons Office, the colour was only used in the periods mentioned above, but in reality, i.e. with the troops, each of the 3 available dark yellows was certainly used (and especially at the end of the war!). For the ordinary soldier with little understanding of colour theory, but with a spray gun in his hand, it was not always obvious on site in the repair companies which dark yellow he had in front of him in the paint bucket.

The raw material-related colour tolerances of the manufacturers at the time alone could turn the most meticulous colour research into a fiasco.

Officially, RAL 7028 Dark Yellow was only introduced with HM No. 181 in 1943.
In the Wehrmacht Communication 1943 No. 181 of February 1943, a new camouflage paint scheme for Wehrmacht motor vehicles and guns was decreed.

The basis of this camouflage paint is the dark beige RAL 7028 "Dunkelgelb nach Muster". This dark yellow according to sample is somewhat lighter than the dark yellow 1. The patches to be painted on consisted of 2 colour tones, RAL 8017 "Red brown no. 19" and RAL 6003 "Olive green", and were applied in appropriate quantities depending on the season, weather and area of operation.

Thus, olive green patches were used more in summer, whereas more reddish brown was used in autumn. Mostly the vehicles were painted in dark yellow at the factory and then painted with the appropriate camouflage patches on site. On many pictures you can see that moving parts like wheels or rims were sprayed with camouflage spots. The spraying resulted in soft transitions.

In the early days after the introduction of the new coloured paint, vehicles painted in RAL 7021, dark grey no. 46, were increasingly painted over with dark yellow spots, so that a desired camouflage effect was achieved.

The new colour scheme was first used on a large scale in the "Zitadelle" operation on the tank types III / IV / V / VI used there. Vehicles and equipment intended for Africa were also uniformly delivered in dark yellow from February 1943. The dark yellow changed, but not the additional camouflage colours RAL 6003 and RAL 8017. Since RAL 7028 was the new standard colour, many items of equipment were gradually painted in this colour.

Among other things:

Petrol cans
Ammunition boxes
Equipment boxes
Bazookas
Cooking utensils
canteen cups this colour.

This colour was removed from the RAL register in 1961.
*** Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version) ***"

The link to the original webpage: https://www.militaerlacke.de/fahrzeuglacke/1k-eimergebinde/wehrmacht/56/1k-ral-7028-dunkelgelb

That is a typical German way of making simple things complicated
_________________
Greetings from Germany
Thorsten

[oldtimervw]

Very good description on the RAL7028.
How about a short description on the North Africa RAL 8020 Sandgelb.
Really gets complicated for the right paint for the right place!
That is a typical German way of making simple things complicated
Thanks

[geneL3c]

Thank you for your very detailed description of Dunkelgelb and its correct application, however the car is already painted and has been returned home to be completed.
The final color chosen is meant to represent a vehicle of DAK in the North African campaign ca. 1941.
While many serious historians focus on correct colors, keep in mind that wartime shortages of parts and materials often gave way to expediency and paint matches were not a particular priority.
It is my understanding that the VW Sedan bodied vehicles were delivered from the factory in matte black inside and out, and were painted when delivered to the assigned theatre. I believe paints were shipped in powder form then mixed and applied with whatever solvent was available, water, gasoline, etc.
I don't believe color matching would even be possible under such circumstances.
Since the car is a replica created with information from many different sources, many of which contradict each other, I was more interested in finally completed a project that actually started over thirty years ago, rather than get mired in details that will probably be challenged for years to come anyway.
Having wasted over 2 1/2 years with one body shop that picked away occasionally when the mood suited them, and did barely 10 % of the contracted work, I was more than thrilled that Cooker's VW Restoration was able to finish my car in only 16 weeks and went well beyond what I expected.
As a result of their amazing attention to detail, I have given them my 1950 Hoffman Standard Sedan to restore back to original.
I will post photos of the Typ 87 replica when it is completed and on the road.
I still need help to figure out what is missing from the hand brake system if anyone can tell me how the cables and push rod tie together at the front ?

[VW_Jimbo]

Hey Gene! Hoping to read an update sooner than. But later is here and nothing.

So, how goes it?
_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[geneL3c]

Jimbo, Great to hear from you, sorry I haven't posted any progress, but I have been working on the chassis every day after work. I'm still doing parts and pieces that need reworking or repair. The RGB installation is mocked up to see if it fits the sedan chassis and I made a template to fit the lever shocks so I can get mounting plates made to be welded in. Front axle is off and apart so I can get out three broken bolts that have so far defied removal. Now matching up the Barndoor inner housing and axle tube to the '63 Typ II outer housing and gears and bearings. The outer oil seal housing has to be machined down so the Typ I brake assembly will fit. Looks like stock 15" wheels will fit under the fenders since the whole transaxle is only 2" wider than stock on each side. Hoping my 6" wide Centerline " sand tire " rims which look so much like the " Kronprince " sand rims will fit, but not sure at this point. I'm about to remove the transaxle so I can get the chassis in the rotiserie and open up the bottom of the tunnel to get at the horror show is see inside, acorns, rodent nests and a lot of rusty tubes like yours ! Regards, Gene

[T2]

Any more updates?

[geneL3c]

T2, Since I picked up the finished body from Cooker's VW Restoration in Maryland last September, I've been working on the chassis almost every day after work and making steady progress, but the chassis has turned out to be more work than expected.
Had to replace quite a bit of rusted tubing in the tunnel, but hope to close it up soon and get it sand blasted and painted.
The front axle beam is junk so I am looking for another one.
The '55 chassis had new floor pans when I bought it, but they are for a 12volt car and will have to be modified for a 6volt battery and '55 pedal assembly.
Knee surgery will set me back a few weeks, but I'll do what I can, when I can.
Managed to get the transaxle narrowed a bit using Barndoor stub axles and Typ I brakes and hope to be able to use my 6" Centerline wheels and all terrain tires. If not I can still use stock wide fives and all weather snows.
Seat frames are out for powder coat, front drums and shoes ( Barndoor ) for new linings and drums re-cut.
Will post photos soon as I get up and around again.
Thanks for your interest, Gene

[geneL3c]

F

Finally had a chance to file some photos, not sure I remember how to post on the forum, but I'll give a try.
Chassis finally up on the rotisserie prior to opening up bottom plate to address rusted tubing and removing the prior tenants quality of life issues ( acorns,stuffing, trash, etc. )

Working to get RGB partially assembled and mocked up to try and narrow wheel track.

Using Barndoor stub axles which are about 1/2 " shorter than the stock '63 Typ II axles and fitting Typ I brake assemblies which bring it in another 1 1/4 ".

Getting the spring plates off without the body on required making a spring plate clamp to save my fingers.

The extra length of the axles extending outside of the Typ I brake drum is just barely covered by the hubcap.
With a stock wide five wheel the tire should be inside the fender, but not sure if it will be enough to cover the 6" wide Centerline wheels I want to use with all terrain tires.

Using Barndoor main axle and axle housing and inner RGB housing with '63 transaxle and outer housing, gears and bearings has required some minimal machining and trial fitting of an assortment of different year and model components, but so far doesn't seem to have created any serious problems.
The RGB housings are very similar but required some modification to be able to use the smaller Typ I brakes, which had to be rotated 180 deg. to fit.
While I haven't put the entire transaxle together yet, the different components have been test fitted, and not all the replacements parts have arrived yet.
Now concentrating on getting ready to close up the bottom of the tunnel.
The chassis had new floor pans when I bought the '55 donor car, but they are for a later car and need to be modified for the pedal assembly to fit and clear all the tunnel tubing.
The front axle beam is trash, but I've located a possible replacement not too far away, thanks to a WTB ad placed on thesamba.
Barndoor front spindles out for a rebuild, front wheel cylinders back from resleeve and rebuild, front BD drums out for linings and drum recut.
Seat frames out for powder coat, then off for upholstery.
Brackets to be welded in for lever action shocks.
Really anxious to start putting things back together, been doing parts and pieces for too long.

[D-train]

Maybe a silly question, but do you have the spacers that go in the end holes on the RGBs?
_________________
shiny paint doesnt make it worth any more

[geneL3c]

Not a silly question, but exactly which spacers are you referring to ?

[T2]

Making great progress. I love this build

[nshaddox]

Nice progress gene. Thanks for sharing your brake/rgb photos. I modified later bug backing plates vs the rarer rgb housings to make mine work (in theory). I’ll be running them upside down with wheel cylinders down low. Looks tight but don’t think I’ll have to modify rgb housings at all and should still be able to figure out an ebrake solution. Always nice to see other peoples solutions though.

Neil

[geneL3c]

Neil,

Finally I get to contribute something useful !

As for the brake issue, I tried to use what I had available and it seems to have all fallen into place.

There was a tunnel housing transaxle in the '55 chassis when I got the car, but it was questionable as to whether it was useable and since I was planning to use most of a Typ II transaxle combined with some Barndoor parts, I figured on using the brakes which I would guess are about 1965 Typ I.

The outer RGB housing as you see in the photos had to be slightly modified to provide clearance for the backing plates which had to be rotated 180 deg and swapped side to side for the handbrake cable housings which came from a '57 Typ I, which are longer than the 1965.

The wheel cylinder winds up on the bottom to clear the RGB housing and have the bleeder accessible.

As you know, the cable lengths will have to be shortened for the '55 handbrake system, which I think is the same as your '52.

I was able to save the threaded cable ends which I think can be brazed to the cable.

The Typ II brake assemblies were just too big to use and would have meant I'd be stuck with a wider track.

All in all I think ( and hope ) it all comes together when it's finally assembled, but I'm leaving room for the unexpected !

Will try to provide more photos, but I'm off for knee surgery in the morning and might be out of the shop for awhile.

[D-train]

[nshaddox]

I had some new swage fittings made up for custom length ebrake cables. I’ll send you a pair since you sent me some other stuff for my build.

Never even thought about the need for a spacer back there. Thanks for sharing those pics. Looks easy enough to fabricate out of flat stock with a drill press.

[geneL3c]

The " spacers " that are referred to are just flat steel with a couple of holes in it to, as you said, keep the RGB clamp bolts from squeezing the housings in on the spring plate. I was not aware of them until I took the RGB apart. Mine were pretty well rust pitted but useable. I'm sure they could be made from flat steel the thickness of the spring plate, or maybe cut out of a scrap spring plate if it's not too tough to be cut on a band saw and drill. They're simple, but very necessary, IMO.

What's the story on your car, hard to make out specific detail.

Neil, I remember the nice swage fittings you made and how you swage them in a hydraulic press, which I never would of thought of, no imagination I guess.
Would not turn down an offer for a better idea !

BTW, the brake cables I'm using are Typ II for the extra length to the front of the chassis, with the longer '57 Typ I cable Bowden sleeve to accommodate re-routing around the RGB.

[D-train]

[geneL3c]

D-train,

Outstanding !

My project idea started with a '57 Sunroof I built up in the 70's with a lift kit in the front and adapter blocks to install a Typ trans.

Your idea makes a lot more sense for the work / rewards formula and I have occasionally suggested to people wanting to replicate a Kublewagen chassis to start with a clapped out Thing chassis and replace the floor pans with Typ I and have a much better combination, almost ready to go.

Your patina finish is sorta' like my paint scheme except mine is supposed to have been dragged out of North Africa covered in mud, dust and Camel shit !

Regards, Gene

[D-train]

[VW_Jimbo]

Any updates on this? Took me a few minutes to find the thread!
_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!