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Pepperbilly Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017 Posts: 977 Location: Seattle, Wa
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Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:32 pm Post subject: Bumper Impact Rubber Update |
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I finally got my impact strips from Germany! The sender put the wrong zip code on the package so it got lost for a while. These are NOS and the real thing. They are in perfect condition for a wonderful restoration. The rear mpact is the perfect length. I had to order 2 impacts for the front so I will have to cut and fuse together. I could not find the front impact but maybe some exist out there. One of the impacts even came in it’s original box. Rudiger Huber is the real deal and has all kinds of NOS parts. He even offered me a 411 part #411707401 at 210cm long but I could not use it. He had this part last month. His business is: karmannghia.de. Located in Offenburg. Just make sure if you order he gets your zip code right. My package bounced around in Florida for a few weeks!
Bill
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21510 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Bumper Impact Rubber Update |
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Nice!
Please take some detail pics of how the bolts are attached. Years ago I worked out how to make some for mine and will get to it when the time comes.
Its not really a practical method for making parts. It consists of a casting mold for acrylic urethane.
Some of the original stirps had bolts attached to a metal strip cast inside of the rubber strip.
Yours appears to have teh end bolt assemblies screwed into teh strip. I will have to look at mine but I am not sure if I have ever seen that method.
Ray |
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Pepperbilly Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017 Posts: 977 Location: Seattle, Wa
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Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: Bumper Impact Rubber Update |
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Ray,
Yes, this is exactly how my originals were. All the impacts had the steel band molded into the rubber the entire length. As the pics show, the self tapping screws came thru the small holes in the bumper from the inside. They then grab the steel band to tighten the impact. I was lucky enough a few months ago to find NOS screws from a fellow Samba member in Canada selling a whole set. I was not sure at the time that these were the correct ones but I bought them anyway. That was a good buy! The only place there is a stud from the impact side is at the ends. Just like my originals. I will have to probably add a washer or two on the screws for proper depth. You don’t want to screw up the nice new impacts by popping thru the face LOL!
Bill
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NurseryWalt Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2016 Posts: 143 Location: Abbotsford, BC
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Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Bumper Impact Rubber Update |
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Wow! I'm impressed. This is going to be a very nice restoration. Keep up the hunt for excellent parts.
Walter _________________ '66 Bug with collector plate and '73 412 project |
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titan3c Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2012 Posts: 568 Location: Coweta, Oklahoma
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Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:46 am Post subject: Re: Bumper Impact Rubber Update |
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Clue me in: How do you connect with Mr. Huber? Is that a mailing address:
Rudiger Huber
Karmanghia.de
Offenberg, Germany
Also how do you fuse these impact strips?
Bob |
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Pepperbilly Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017 Posts: 977 Location: Seattle, Wa
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Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:21 am Post subject: Re: Bumper Impact Rubber Update |
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Google: www.vintagecarparts.de. That will get you to his business site. I am not sure how I will fuse the impacts…but I will somehow get it done.
Bill |
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Pepperbilly Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017 Posts: 977 Location: Seattle, Wa
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Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Bumper Impact Rubber Update |
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The NOS impact rubber have fused ends. Must be what VW did at the time to adjust for lengths for different bumpers. This is what I want to accomplish for my front bumper. Because the 412 front is longer than anyother type I had to buy 2 impacts to make one front. If you look closely at the photos you can see the joint. Not sure how I will accomplish this yet.
Bill
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21510 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:22 am Post subject: Re: Bumper Impact Rubber Update |
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Pepperbilly wrote: |
The NOS impact rubber have fused ends. Must be what VW did at the time to adjust for lengths for different bumpers. This is what I want to accomplish for my front bumper. Because the 412 front is longer than anyother type I had to buy 2 impacts to make one front. If you look closely at the photos you can see the joint. Not sure how I will accomplish this yet.
Bill
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Please post some close pictures from other angles of the joint or line.
I am not convinced these are "fused". That would be VERY hard to do.
As long as this rubber does seem to last out in the sun....it is likely EPDM just like the windshield gaskets.
This means that back in the day when these parts were made.....there was only one adhesive family that "could" join EPDM rubber....cyanoacryate (Eastman 910 came out in 1958 and Loctite 404....a licensed version of 910 came out a few years later).
Affordable industrial versions may have been available in the late 60s when they started making these cars.....but I can assure you that its not what was used (if these are bonded at all)......because cyanoacrylates do poorly with water, heat and weathering.
There are now two part acrylics and better catalyzed cyanoacrylates for EPDM.....but they did not exist when these parts were made.
They could possibly be "melt" bonded....using hot air or radiant heater plates/cartridges.....but that will always leave a joint that has to be hand trimmed.
That picture does not look like bonding to me. It looks like they had different mold segments for different ends. Bolt together reconfigurable molds have been around sin e molding began.
Ray |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21510 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:29 am Post subject: Re: Bumper Impact Rubber Update |
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An update on that last post:
I had a few minutes between appointments to look at the bumper strip on the rear of my car. I do not have one on the front....but have a front bumper in my storage unit with one.
The curved end is INDEED BONDED.....but not how you think it might be and by none of the methods I listed in my last post.
The bonding is accomplished.....by using the metal strip inside as a core or joiner. So the metal strip is eitjer cast inside or inserted through a slit in the backside of the bumper strip. On the rear strip.....the steel core strip protrudes out of each end of the main section of the center strip by about 1.5".
The curved/shaped/bevelled end piece.....slips onto that strip.....and the slot around tje metal and on any mating surfaces between the rubber parts was just filled with weatherstrip adhesive......contact cement.
The main "bond" is on the insixe between the metal strip and both outer rubber parts. The thin layer of contact cement between the faves of the rubber parts is really just a sealer.
You could use black 3M weather strip adhesive to duplicate the factory technique pretty easily. I will post some pics in the next day or so.
Ray |
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Pepperbilly Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017 Posts: 977 Location: Seattle, Wa
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Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: Bumper Impact Rubber Update |
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Hey thanks Ray,
I am in the idea stage on this. Looks like I'm going to try and bond the impact strips exactly in the front middle of the bumper. I could have easily done this "splice' behind one of the bumper overriders/guards. This would have been easy to conceal but I am probably not using my guards. I like the cleaner look without and will make it easier to add some fog lights.
Bill |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21510 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: Bumper Impact Rubber Update |
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Pepperbilly wrote: |
Hey thanks Ray,
I am in the idea stage on this. Looks like I'm going to try and bond the impact strips exactly in the front middle of the bumper. I could have easily done this "splice' behind one of the bumper overriders/guards. This would have been easy to conceal but I am probably not using my guards. I like the cleaner look without and will make it easier to add some fog lights.
Bill |
So...if you want to bond the strip in the center....it can be done the same way....IF.....the outer rubber sheath will slide along the metal strip in the core. I need to look a little more at my old strips. The rear one which is actually a type 3 strip....appears at a glance...like the strip was molded with a flat cavity inside and then either had a molded slit or was slit and the metal strip inserted.
I suspect.....that the bumper strips were a continuous mold. They just had coils of the general shape like this
You could slide those over the steel strip and cement it with weather strip adhesive and then slip on the specific molded ends for each model and cement those.
Ray |
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kirk knighton Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2005 Posts: 282 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:15 am Post subject: Re: Bumper Impact Rubber Update |
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Pepperbilly wrote: |
I finally got my impact strips from Germany! The sender put the wrong zip code on the package so it got lost for a while. These are NOS and the real thing. They are in perfect condition for a wonderful restoration. The rear mpact is the perfect length. I had to order 2 impacts for the front so I will have to cut and fuse together. I could not find the front impact but maybe some exist out there. One of the impacts even came in it’s original box. Rudiger Huber is the real deal and has all kinds of NOS parts. He even offered me a 411 part #411707401 at 210cm long but I could not use it. He had this part last month. His business is: karmannghia.de. Located in Offenburg. Just make sure if you order he gets your zip code right. My package bounced around in Florida for a few weeks!
Bill
Hey, you're in Seattle with a Type 4? I'm just across the Sound near Kingston with my two 412s. Thought I was the only Type 4 owner around!
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Pepperbilly Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017 Posts: 977 Location: Seattle, Wa
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Bumper Impact Rubber Update |
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Hi Kirk,
Yes, my ‘73 wagon has been in the family since 1975. I influenced my mom back then to buy it. Bought it as a used car from Avalon VW in White Center where I loved to go as a kid and oogle at the new VW’s. So now getting close to finishing up a total restoration in it’s original Maya Gold Metallic. Someday when I am all done we can possibly get together and chat and look. I’ve known about your 412’s from Samba for a long time. There is also Walter in Abbortsford, BC working on restoring his sedan. So looks like more will be out there in the not too distant future.
Bill |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33991 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Pepperbilly Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017 Posts: 977 Location: Seattle, Wa
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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: Bumper Impact Rubber Update |
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Yeah, I have seen that also. Looks like the bumper tape but every one I’ve seen is black. Not sure the application for this.
Bill |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21510 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 10:11 pm Post subject: Re: Bumper Impact Rubber Update |
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There were quite a few cars that came with no impact strip...just a black or accent colored tape/decal in the groove in the bumper.
I think that is what that is.
I will check the parts book and see what its says. Ray |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2002 Posts: 127
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Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: Bumper Impact Rubber Update |
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Can anyone tell me what these two impact strips will fit
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Pepperbilly Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017 Posts: 977 Location: Seattle, Wa
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Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: Bumper Impact Rubber Update |
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311 707 201 A is for a late style Type 3 front. 411 707 201 is for a Type 4 front. Should measure at about 90 3/8” or 229.5 cm’s long.
Bill |
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