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liquidrush Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2018 Posts: 582 Location: MO
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:53 am Post subject: My throttle hex bar is not straight |
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So I'm installing a dual carb setup and after the carbs are sitting on the manifolds I noticed that the throttle cross bar is significantly uneven. According to the instructions there's no left or right to any of the included parts. Am I missing something? It seems like a pretty straightforward installation. It's about 3/8" of an inch away from the shroud on the left side and 1 1/4" inch on the right side. The engine is stock, no stroker or anything else like that.
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Ohio Tom Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006 Posts: 1657 Location: Marshallville Ohio
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:00 am Post subject: Re: My throttle hex bar is not straight |
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As long as it's not in a bind, it's not an issue.
With the range of manifolds available with different offsets.
And, the range of carburetor linkage plates, you can end up all kinds of crooked.
It' doesn't throw the geometry off enough to matter. |
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liquidrush Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2018 Posts: 582 Location: MO
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:07 am Post subject: Re: My throttle hex bar is not straight |
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Thanks, just seems like a jacked up way of doing things. |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26740 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: My throttle hex bar is not straight |
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I have noticed a lot of people prefer it to be straight. And many are made to be that way, but in order to do that... that means your carburetors have to be straight across from eachother, or you need a janky long spacer on one of the throttle arm.
IMO, I don't care if it's straight, as long as it works good. |
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:55 pm Post subject: Re: My throttle hex bar is not straight |
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modok wrote: |
I have noticed a lot of people prefer it to be straight. And many are made to be that way, but in order to do that... that means your carburetors have to be straight across from eachother, or you need a janky long spacer on one of the throttle arm.
IMO, I don't care if it's straight, as long as it works good. |
X2, the angle doesn't really matter. It just looks "wrong" but because of the ball joints it works fine.
Not really janky.
I like the CSP "twist" linkage, but some people poo-poo that one for having geometry "issues." Personally, I've been able to sync it well. It's a bit of a dance to get it set up, but it stays in sync and the clean look is unbeatable. There are a few unique tricks to get that specific linkage dialed in just right. _________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder ) |
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Lingwendil Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009 Posts: 3987 Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:48 am Post subject: Re: My throttle hex bar is not straight |
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evanfrucht wrote: |
I like the CSP "twist" linkage, but some people poo-poo that one for having geometry "issues." Personally, I've been able to sync it well. It's a bit of a dance to get it set up, but it stays in sync and the clean look is unbeatable. There are a few unique tricks to get that specific linkage dialed in just right. |
Care to explain a bit? Getting ready to set some up for IDF clones and curious. _________________ 73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!
Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884
Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087! |
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:07 am Post subject: Re: My throttle hex bar is not straight |
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Lingwendil wrote: |
evanfrucht wrote: |
I like the CSP "twist" linkage, but some people poo-poo that one for having geometry "issues." Personally, I've been able to sync it well. It's a bit of a dance to get it set up, but it stays in sync and the clean look is unbeatable. There are a few unique tricks to get that specific linkage dialed in just right. |
Care to explain a bit? Getting ready to set some up for IDF clones and curious. |
Well for one, the throttle shaft arms that come with the kit have a slight amount of rotational play in the hole that's fits through the throttle shaft (at least on Dells.) You can use that play to your advantage and tighten it down where it needs to be. It helps you rotate the arm to compensate for any funny business in the angles or threaded adjustment limitations. This is particularly helpful when turning the shaft to adjust moves the throttle point either barely not enough or just a hair too much, due to the design of the linkage and the thread pitch on the rod.
A bit hard to explain but hope I made that sort of clear. _________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder ) |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:05 am Post subject: Re: My throttle hex bar is not straight |
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Has nothing to do with carburetors or linkage....Its all about offset of manifolds..... IF its free and easy and works there is no issue except for aesthetics... _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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liquidrush Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2018 Posts: 582 Location: MO
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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: My throttle hex bar is not straight |
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I got em all synced and tuned pretty good, every thing moves smoothly and it runs smoother than I thought it would but man, my ocd requires more symmetry with this so I'm going to add a little material to that left side bracket to move it back more in line with that right side. Of course I'll have to pull the right bracket as well to blast and paint it to match the left side. Oh well, nothing is ever easy. |
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raydog Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006 Posts: 1157 Location: Cape Cod
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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: My throttle hex bar is not straight |
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I used the Vintage Speed center pull linkage and I will never go back to hexbar. Pricey yes, but no issues setting up, in fact very easy to sync, smooth, with minimum spring pressure. _________________ Come on, It's not rocket science. KISS |
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nsracing Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2003 Posts: 9437 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: My throttle hex bar is not straight |
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The man is complaining his shaft is crooked? It is only a problem if she complains. |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76761 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: My throttle hex bar is not straight |
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nsracing wrote: |
The man is complaining his shaft is crooked? It is only a problem if she complains. |
modok wrote: |
IMO, I don't care if it's straight, as long as it works good. |
Great quotes
After 35 years, it still works like new.
_________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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liquidrush Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2018 Posts: 582 Location: MO
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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: My throttle hex bar is not straight |
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Rather than cutting, welding and refinishing I machined a couple spacers for the left side bracket and used two longer bolts for it. I got it pretty straight now within about a quarter of an inch and it satisfies my ocd. I'm out in the garage running it and my wife comes out says it sounds different and what did I do. I can't hide anything from her. Anyway, with it running at idle speed it responds very well on both sides to the mixture screw and it idles well but it smells awfully rich. Are there different idle air or fuel jets for these carbs I can try? They're the empi single barrel EPC 34s.
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cbeck Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2014 Posts: 2494 Location: high ridge, mo
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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: My throttle hex bar is not straight |
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Have you checked fuel pressure? Mine liked 2.5 to 3 psi. The new pump I got from archway put out about 7 psi. Could not drive down a gravel road without the nedle/float getting overpowered to the point of it loading up real bad. _________________ My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779 |
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liquidrush Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2018 Posts: 582 Location: MO
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Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:25 am Post subject: Re: My throttle hex bar is not straight |
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Yes, I bought a pump from the guy here. It bounces at 2psi at idle. |
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Rome Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004 Posts: 9602 Location: Pearl River, NY
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Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: My throttle hex bar is not straight |
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liquid, now that you have the hex bar moved back on the left side, you have to make sure that your carb "down rods" are at the same angle as seen from the side as in your 2nd photo. It looks like the left carb's rod is not as steep/close to vertical as the right carb's rod. They have to be as close to the same angle as possible, and now you'd need to make an extension for the left carb bottom heim joint to move that joint rearwards and match the steepness angle of the right rod. Theoretically you'd make that extension the same length as you extended your hex bar back. |
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: My throttle hex bar is not straight |
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Just remove the spacers. It was never a problem to begin with. You've created one.
If you want a good looking linkage... get a CSP.
It's that simple...
The CB hex bar works great. It's just looks bad... IMO _________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder ) |
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liquidrush Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2018 Posts: 582 Location: MO
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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:39 am Post subject: Re: My throttle hex bar is not straight |
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Looking at csp I don't see linkage for these carbs unless you just have to work it out. I now, of course, get it with keeping the heim joint bars at the same angle. That didn't even occur to me as I was more concerned with looks. I can't help it, I require symmetry. Checking them with my digital protractor they are over 8 degrees different |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9663 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:50 am Post subject: Re: My throttle hex bar is not straight |
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Are the carbs ICT's?
https://www.csp-shop.com/en/engine/bellcrank-linkage-csp-129-941-110ict-20594a.html _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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liquidrush Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2018 Posts: 582 Location: MO
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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:46 am Post subject: Re: My throttle hex bar is not straight |
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I saw that one, it's from Britain and it seems to be out of stock in the USA. Unless anyone has one for sale. |
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