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DigiMatrix Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010 Posts: 450 Location: Up North Canada
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Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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korfmach wrote: |
IIRC it's the stock fuel/spark/injection map.
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FYI bank 1 and bank 3 are the stock original chip with WOT delay at 5000 strokes. Bank 2 is stock, except the WOT delay is set to 20 strokes (hex 16). If you switch to bank 2 you can tell because the WOT delay shows as 16.
Thanks for the compliments. _________________ _________________
'91 Syncro Westfalia
soon to be 2.5 liter stroker WBX 10:1 comp
Digifant ECU with knock sensor and custom
cylinder selective knock control by me |
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hans j Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2006 Posts: 2715 Location: Salt Lake City UT
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Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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Finally got mine installed today but haven't messed around with anything else yet. I have Marco injectors and 1.25 rockers on my 2wd automatic to play with. It currently gets pretty good fuel economy and power is decent, but might be able to do a tiny bit to it. _________________ 1986 Canadian Syncro Westy TDI - 1989 Syncro Single Cab - 2001 Audi S4 - 1981 VW Caddy ABA - 1980 VW Caddy EV - 1973 VW T-181 |
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natejohn Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2020 Posts: 57 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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So I made what I considered a valiant attempt at soldering the emulator wire in my ECU, but it just didnt work out that well for me. I'm no stranger to soldering, and have what i considered the proper tools, but it looks as though I was a little too hot and heavy with my iron and made some mistakes. I boxed it all up and sent it to Digimatrix to see if he could un-screw what I had screwed.
After inspection, I had managed to:
1) Tear the wire off the emulator (in an attempt to strip the casing back for fresh wire after I couldn't fit it through the hold in the ECU board)
2) In doing that, rip the solder pad off the emulator
3) Bugger up the ECU solder pad on the backside where the wire solders to
Very thankfully he was able to repair what I'd done and got it back to me in working condition. I am forever grateful! Thanks again.
I remounted the ECU in my van the other day and took a video of it connected and warming up. I've set my dashboard to as close to the one in the video provided by DigiMatrix, and can post the video here at some point.
As it stands right now, my (bone stock, 95kmile) engine is running what I consider to be rough at idle, plus a little rumbling on deceleration. Almost sounds like backfire, but not quite as loud or poppy if that makes sense.
In the last year, it's had:
1) Plugs, rotor, cap, wires
2) Ignition coil
3) Coolant sensors
4) Fuel Pump
5) New fuel line kit
6) New O2 Sensor
Now, a lot of this was done because I'd just bought the van and as a mechanic I wanted to tinker, as well as being due for it by mileage (89k when I got it), and not necessarily because it was all failing. While replacing much of this, I found oddities like the 02 sensor being unplugged, the cooling system being filled with straight water (nice, PO was shocked when I told him that). I'm hoping that there may be some indicators of why it's running a bit rough in the warmup video.
In the interest of getting a good library of running and runability data from these emulators, what would be the best way you think to gather it? Should we start a thread for videos or otherwise recorded data to share, and any changes or mods you have on your engines?
Exciting stuff in any case, I look forward to seeing what everyone has to contribute.
Screenshot of my first successful connection:
_________________ 1990 Vanagon Westfalia |
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bobbyblack Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015 Posts: 4353 Location: United States, Iowa
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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What Voltage are y'all seeing when initially connecting the Bluetooth (ALDLDroid), prior to starting the engine? Mine was in the mid 13's when running.. before starting, I'd see something in the 11's even though my other voltage readouts were showing well into or in the high 12's. _________________ '87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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Steve M. Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013 Posts: 6833 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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bobbyblack wrote: |
What Voltage are y'all seeing when initially connecting the Bluetooth (ALDLDroid), prior to starting the engine? Mine was in the mid 13's when running.. before starting, I'd see something in the 11's even though my other voltage readouts were showing well into or in the high 12's. |
Mine shows 12.7 or 12.9. _________________ This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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montanasurfer Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2014 Posts: 319 Location: United States
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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natejohn wrote: |
So I made what I considered a valiant attempt at soldering the emulator wire in my ECU, but it just didnt work out that well for me. I'm no stranger to soldering, and have what i considered the proper tools, but it looks as though I was a little too hot and heavy with my iron and made some mistakes. I boxed it all up and sent it to Digimatrix to see if he could un-screw what I had screwed.
After inspection, I had managed to:
1) Tear the wire off the emulator (in an attempt to strip the casing back for fresh wire after I couldn't fit it through the hold in the ECU board)
2) In doing that, rip the solder pad off the emulator
3) Bugger up the ECU solder pad on the backside where the wire solders to
Very thankfully he was able to repair what I'd done and got it back to me in working condition. I am forever grateful! Thanks again.
I remounted the ECU in my van the other day and took a video of it connected and warming up. I've set my dashboard to as close to the one in the video provided by DigiMatrix, and can post the video here at some point.
As it stands right now, my (bone stock, 95kmile) engine is running what I consider to be rough at idle, plus a little rumbling on deceleration. Almost sounds like backfire, but not quite as loud or poppy if that makes sense.
In the last year, it's had:
1) Plugs, rotor, cap, wires
2) Ignition coil
3) Coolant sensors
4) Fuel Pump
5) New fuel line kit
6) New O2 Sensor
Now, a lot of this was done because I'd just bought the van and as a mechanic I wanted to tinker, as well as being due for it by mileage (89k when I got it), and not necessarily because it was all failing. While replacing much of this, I found oddities like the 02 sensor being unplugged, the cooling system being filled with straight water (nice, PO was shocked when I told him that). I'm hoping that there may be some indicators of why it's running a bit rough in the warmup video.
In the interest of getting a good library of running and runability data from these emulators, what would be the best way you think to gather it? Should we start a thread for videos or otherwise recorded data to share, and any changes or mods you have on your engines?
Exciting stuff in any case, I look forward to seeing what everyone has to contribute.
Screenshot of my first successful connection:
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Based off the 2d timing map, it looks like your timing is a bit advanced. But maybe that is just because you're in the warm up stage. _________________ 1987 Vanagon GL - Wolfsburg Edition |
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DigiMatrix Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010 Posts: 450 Location: Up North Canada
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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I just looked at my video of warm up from cold. ECT = 40 degC, IAT = 14.3 deg C, RPM = 938 Battery voltage = 13.6 and Advance = 14.72 deg BTDC.
The advance does fluctuate from 10.5 deg BTDC to 16.83 deg BTDC.
Please note, the advance code for idle is separate from the 2D table I posted earlier, so don't expect it to follow that. If your throttle switch isn't working then the 2d table is used. Anyone that has had an intermittent throttle switch, you will know the idle is much better when the switch is working properly. _________________ _________________
'91 Syncro Westfalia
soon to be 2.5 liter stroker WBX 10:1 comp
Digifant ECU with knock sensor and custom
cylinder selective knock control by me |
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DigiMatrix Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010 Posts: 450 Location: Up North Canada
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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Steve M. wrote: |
bobbyblack wrote: |
What Voltage are y'all seeing when initially connecting the Bluetooth (ALDLDroid), prior to starting the engine? Mine was in the mid 13's when running.. before starting, I'd see something in the 11's even though my other voltage readouts were showing well into or in the high 12's. |
Mine shows 12.7 or 12.9. |
Mine shows 11.7 with just ignition on, dropping to 11.0 when starting and 13.5 when first running and settling at 13.8 _________________ _________________
'91 Syncro Westfalia
soon to be 2.5 liter stroker WBX 10:1 comp
Digifant ECU with knock sensor and custom
cylinder selective knock control by me |
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Steve M. Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013 Posts: 6833 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:46 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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DigiMatrix wrote: |
Steve M. wrote: |
bobbyblack wrote: |
What Voltage are y'all seeing when initially connecting the Bluetooth (ALDLDroid), prior to starting the engine? Mine was in the mid 13's when running.. before starting, I'd see something in the 11's even though my other voltage readouts were showing well into or in the high 12's. |
Mine shows 12.7 or 12.9. |
Mine shows 11.7 with just ignition on, dropping to 11.0 when starting and 13.5 when first running and settling at 13.8 |
I was referencing voltage after it has been sitting and checking it before starting. Best of my memory. I'm out on a job so cannot check it right now. I will not get back until end of month or mid Nov. maybe.
Running voltage is the Alternator output reaching battery. _________________ This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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natejohn Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2020 Posts: 57 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:14 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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Here's the video I did earlier today. Complete cold to warmup. I spent most of the time on the O2 screen but flip over to the first page occasionally.
Link
_________________ 1990 Vanagon Westfalia |
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DigiMatrix Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010 Posts: 450 Location: Up North Canada
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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natejohn, your video with the stock injectors definitely shows that the Mansi injectors are a higher flow rate than stock. On my engine (2.1 L and 1.25 ratio rockers) with your ECU the integral gain (long term offset) settled out at -80 while yours is showing a value of zero. That is showing the stock tune and injectors are well matched. Looks like some improvements can be made (not as rich during warmup) by adjusting the fuel table if you are running the Mansi injectors.
Note to self: finish the XDF file! _________________ _________________
'91 Syncro Westfalia
soon to be 2.5 liter stroker WBX 10:1 comp
Digifant ECU with knock sensor and custom
cylinder selective knock control by me |
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natejohn Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2020 Posts: 57 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:09 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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DigiMatrix wrote: |
natejohn, your video with the stock injectors definitely shows that the Mansi injectors are a higher flow rate than stock. On my engine (2.1 L and 1.25 ratio rockers) with your ECU the integral gain (long term offset) settled out at -80 while yours is showing a value of zero. That is showing the stock tune and injectors are well matched. Looks like some improvements can be made (not as rich during warmup) by adjusting the fuel table if you are running the Mansi injectors.
Note to self: finish the XDF file! |
I was wondering about that. I recall you mentioning yours hit around -80 or so but yeah didn’t see any great movement on mine. Can’t wait to see what a new fuel table can do with those injectors, I’m looking at getting a set! _________________ 1990 Vanagon Westfalia |
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DuncanS Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013 Posts: 4583 Location: New Hampshire
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:25 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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This all exciting news. Only wish you hadn't sold one to Steve M who then doesn't even need it 'til Tgiving! Mita moved me up a couple of minutes on when I get mine.
Thank you Santa. Whatta Christmas this will be.
Duncan |
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DigiMatrix Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010 Posts: 450 Location: Up North Canada
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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:53 am Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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natejohn wrote: |
DigiMatrix wrote: |
natejohn, your video with the stock injectors definitely shows that the Mansi injectors are a higher flow rate than stock. On my engine (2.1 L and 1.25 ratio rockers) with your ECU the integral gain (long term offset) settled out at -80 while yours is showing a value of zero. That is showing the stock tune and injectors are well matched. Looks like some improvements can be made (not as rich during warmup) by adjusting the fuel table if you are running the Mansi injectors.
Note to self: finish the XDF file! |
I was wondering about that. I recall you mentioning yours hit around -80 or so but yeah didn’t see any great movement on mine. Can’t wait to see what a new fuel table can do with those injectors, I’m looking at getting a set! |
In case anyone is wondering, I love my Mansi injectors and I am in no way trying discredit them. I just noticed that during warm up they seem a little rich. With a functioning O2 sensor, once in closed loop operation the ECU does it's job and compensates for this by adjusting the integral gain (long term fuel correction). With the emulator, I will now be able to adjust the main fuel table and the idle fuel table so the value is much closer to where it should be, getting the long term correction closer to zero. _________________ _________________
'91 Syncro Westfalia
soon to be 2.5 liter stroker WBX 10:1 comp
Digifant ECU with knock sensor and custom
cylinder selective knock control by me |
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Steve M. Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013 Posts: 6833 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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DuncanS wrote: |
This all exciting news. Only wish you hadn't sold one to Steve M who then doesn't even need it 'til Tgiving! Mita moved me up a couple of minutes on when I get mine.
Thank you Santa. Whatta Christmas this will be.
Duncan |
🤗😘 _________________ This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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jberger Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003 Posts: 2476
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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:09 am Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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DigiMatrix wrote: |
natejohn wrote: |
DigiMatrix wrote: |
natejohn, your video with the stock injectors definitely shows that the Mansi injectors are a higher flow rate than stock. On my engine (2.1 L and 1.25 ratio rockers) with your ECU the integral gain (long term offset) settled out at -80 while yours is showing a value of zero. That is showing the stock tune and injectors are well matched. Looks like some improvements can be made (not as rich during warmup) by adjusting the fuel table if you are running the Mansi injectors.
Note to self: finish the XDF file! |
I was wondering about that. I recall you mentioning yours hit around -80 or so but yeah didn’t see any great movement on mine. Can’t wait to see what a new fuel table can do with those injectors, I’m looking at getting a set! |
In case anyone is wondering, I love my Mansi injectors and I am in no way trying discredit them. I just noticed that during warm up they seem a little rich. With a functioning O2 sensor, once in closed loop operation the ECU does it's job and compensates for this by adjusting the integral gain (long term fuel correction). With the emulator, I will now be able to adjust the main fuel table and the idle fuel table so the value is much closer to where it should be, getting the long term correction closer to zero. |
This is a really interesting observation. Of course I don't have the Emulator yet.. but do have the Mansi injectors (Not a stock MV) and have noticed warm up is a bit rich and rough, but then again it always has been. This is the only time you can "tune" the AFM in open loop to adjust for this. Or tune it out digitally as the case may be.
J |
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DigiMatrix Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010 Posts: 450 Location: Up North Canada
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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:47 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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Ok, so I have been delayed in working on the next 20 Emulators. I had a few people with issues with the first 20. I have had 3 people send them back with their ECU so I could have a look. In all 3 cases the Emulator was working properly, but the connection to the ECU was poor. Once I had corrected the issues by re- soldering or repairing the messed up connection all was fine. So... may I suggest that if you are not comfortable soldering or don't have the proper tools to do a proper job then please make arrangements for somebody skilled at this sort of work to do it for you. I am more than happy to do it, but it can be expensive to ship to me. I will also update the documentation to clearly show the 3 possible locations the single wire can be soldered to and indicate the skill required for each and some extra information like soldering heat etc.
On another note, I was online to a few component suppliers today thinking about ordering parts for the 3rd run. Bad news, the required microcontroller is on back order and not available until February 2022. I will do some more looking, but it is not looking good. I will not substitute with questionable components. _________________ _________________
'91 Syncro Westfalia
soon to be 2.5 liter stroker WBX 10:1 comp
Digifant ECU with knock sensor and custom
cylinder selective knock control by me
Last edited by DigiMatrix on Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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DuncanS Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013 Posts: 4583 Location: New Hampshire
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Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:38 am Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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When I was a kid and wanted something I had reasonably good luck with my North Pole supplier. Have you tried writing Santa? I hear he may now respond to emails, but not texts. Hope he doesn't have to disappoint many this December. |
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DigiMatrix Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010 Posts: 450 Location: Up North Canada
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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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Documentation for soldering the single wire to the ECU has been updated with pictures (3 options). If you don't have a solder sucker, I would recommend option2 provided you have a fine pointed soldering iron. I set my soldering iron temperature to 295 deg C on my soldering station.
I have ordered a batch of the required micro controllers today. Estimated ship date is Feb 04, 2022. I don't have time before Christmas anyway. Still work full time and we have 4 projects on the go right now that we need to finish before Dec 17th.
Working on the next 20 tonight and tomorrow. _________________ _________________
'91 Syncro Westfalia
soon to be 2.5 liter stroker WBX 10:1 comp
Digifant ECU with knock sensor and custom
cylinder selective knock control by me |
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hans j Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2006 Posts: 2715 Location: Salt Lake City UT
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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:06 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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DigiMatrix wrote: |
I had a few people with issues with the first 20. I have had 3 people send them back with their ECU so I could have a look. In all 3 cases the Emulator was working properly, but the connection to the ECU was poor. |
What kind of issues? I drove mine this weekend and had used an ECM that I know worked, but not long distance tested. Well after a solid hour of driving it would intermittently lose power, let off the accelerator and step back on it and it was fine, like it just went into idle. Then occasionally the tach would drop out completely and I'd have to restart it while driving. Restarted every time.
It was definitely not anything that could shake loose because we spent about one hour on washboard roads. I finally pulled over and removed the car seats to swap out another ECM I brought with me, because vanagons... I still suspect the ECM is at fault ultimately and will be swapping the chip into another ECM this week. I won't get a chance to drive it an hour for a while though unless I just let it idle a while during work. I haven't got the ALDL app yet to monitor what was going on either. _________________ 1986 Canadian Syncro Westy TDI - 1989 Syncro Single Cab - 2001 Audi S4 - 1981 VW Caddy ABA - 1980 VW Caddy EV - 1973 VW T-181 |
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