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mr_bill Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2006 Posts: 1008 Location: City of Orange, CA
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Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: Opinions on class 11 tires. |
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oprn wrote: |
Personally wheel adapters make me nervous. I took them off my sand rail because they were thin cast aluminum ones. I have been running a set on my fiberglass street buggy now for 3 summers (they came with the car and they look to be better quality) without a problem but eventually they will be coming off too. Mostly to get the offset under control but for simplicity and peace of mind. Any parts left off will not fail.
Why would you want the same width and tread pattern front and rear? They are doing a completely different job and are also loaded totally differently. Getting the most out of your car would include matching the tires to the job they are doing... not?
Just something to think about... |
ONLY "1" SPARE TIRE NEEDED _________________ see ya' on the trail........
"Mr Bill"
Dos Perros Motorsports
Orange, CA
1972 Class 11x/Stock Bug
'60's era "vintage" Tunnell-Buggy
"...no one here....get's out ALIVE...."
Motor = electric
Engine = internal combustion
www.facebook.com/groups/DosPerrosMotorsports
www.alrchapter132.org
www.DAV.org |
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:10 pm Post subject: Re: Opinions on class 11 tires. |
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cptcrusty1 wrote: |
WAIT WAIT WAIT... hang on, hold the train, stop the presses... yes I've seen the "stretched" tires MANY times and I still don't get it... I 've also see the major camber setups and that makes no sense either... and what you're saying about major chains, yeah, that makes sense... I can't even get Discount Tire to put air in my Goldwing tires because of the "liability"... what??
My 74 standard has 15x5, maybe 15x5.5's rims. Tires are 195/65. You're saying I could put a 235 on there??? Like... a 235/75 BFGoodrich KO2? |
Yes, you could use 235-75 BFG KO2s on 4" wide rims.
Stretched tires come from road racers in the late 1960s/early 1970s. It had to do with sidewall flex under severe cornering. And the race car tires were MADE FOR that situation. Same with severe negative camber for hard cornering.
These days, people do both for "the look". Both are VERY popular in Japan for the posers who don't actually use their cars hard, just show them off to look cool. Same here in the US among the "tuner" crowd. _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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Boosted60 Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2012 Posts: 21 Location: Pasadena CA
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:30 am Post subject: Re: Opinions on class 11 tires. |
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Got caught in the rain the other night. Thought it looked nice under the chick fil a lights. Haha
Ive put about 200 miles on it since installing the wheels and everything has been great so far.
Retorqued everything last night and they barely needed it.
So im ecstatic to have my car back after all these years.
Thinking if it rains tonight/tomorrow may take it up to Azusa canyon off road area.
But id have to find my spark arrestor first.
I also maxed out the front beam adjuster to lift the car about half an inch higher to clear the tires. I do not like how it rides anymore.
I really want to go with lift spindles and readjust my beam to give me about an inch more lift in the front and soften the ride a bit.
What is the general consensus about the kustom1 lift spindles?
i have the two stud style adjusters on my beam, not the serrated berg kind.
Is there a way to tell how much the beam has been turned by looking at it?
i would hate to put the drop spindles to find out i cant lower the front enough and still have good ride quality. i dont want it looking like a pre runner.
Thanks guys. |
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: Opinions on class 11 tires. |
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I don't recommend those lift spindles. They have shown themselves to be weak. I forget who on here had one break on the street.
If you use "lift" to clear bigger tires, then what happens when you hit a bump?
The car looks good.
If the suspension is topped out as it sits, it WILL ride rough.
The stud style adjusters are Sway-A-Way type. The others are Avis. The Sway-A-Way type are much stronger.
To tell how much the car is lifted would require measuring the arm angle on a stock Bug and comparing it to yours. Or put stock size tires on yours and measuring to the bottom of the spare tire well from the ground and compare that to a stock Bug. How much the beam is rotated is not a valid question because the stock centers are cut out when the adjusters are welded in. For offroad, they SHOULD HAVE been welded in so at the lowest, they would be equal to stock ride height. But how somebody else installed them I can't speak for. _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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Schepp Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2020 Posts: 78 Location: Petaluma, CA
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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:51 pm Post subject: Re: Opinions on class 11 tires. |
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dustymojave wrote: |
I don't recommend those lift spindles. They have shown themselves to be weak. I forget who on here had one break on the street |
I’d like more information on this topic.
I researched over a year before making the purchase of these spindles and found no information on any of them failing. Can you back up what you’re saying about these spindles being weak?
After having them in my hands I can say that the build quality is very well done. Fully tig welded. The welds are damn near perfect. The spindle shafts themselves are welded on the front and rosette welded on the back. The laser cut plates are 1/2”. The fit and finish was spot-on. And the empi disc kit bolted up without any issues.
Not saying your wrong. And my car isn’t on the road yet so I can’t disprove what you’re saying.
I know you’re a well known member on here. So I respect what you have to say.
Thanks
Schepp |
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Mike Fisher Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 17969 Location: Eugene, OR
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Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:07 am Post subject: Re: Opinions on class 11 tires. |
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If you want the smoothest ride you have to have lifted or dropped spindles. I'd like dropped welded (oldspeed) spindles for my lowered squareback. _________________ https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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dirtkeeper Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2008 Posts: 3200 Location: Left of everywhere
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Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: Opinions on class 11 tires. |
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Schepp wrote: |
dustymojave wrote: |
I don't recommend those lift spindles. They have shown themselves to be weak. I forget who on here had one break on the street |
I’d like more information on this topic.
I researched over a year before making the purchase of these spindles and found no information on any of them failing. Can you back up what you’re saying about these spindles being weak?
After having them in my hands I can say that the build quality is very well done. Fully tig welded. The welds are damn near perfect. The spindle shafts themselves are welded on the front and rosette welded on the back. The laser cut plates are 1/2”. The fit and finish was spot-on. And the empi disc kit bolted up without any issues.
Not saying your wrong. And my car isn’t on the road yet so I can’t disprove what you’re saying.
I know you’re a well known member on here. So I respect what you have to say.
Thanks
Schepp |
I think he was referring to this thread , things may have changed since then
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=577872
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Schepp Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2020 Posts: 78 Location: Petaluma, CA
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Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: Opinions on class 11 tires. |
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dirtkeeper wrote: |
Schepp wrote: |
dustymojave wrote: |
I don't recommend those lift spindles. They have shown themselves to be weak. I forget who on here had one break on the street |
I’d like more information on this topic.
I researched over a year before making the purchase of these spindles and found no information on any of them failing. Can you back up what you’re saying about these spindles being weak?
After having them in my hands I can say that the build quality is very well done. Fully tig welded. The welds are damn near perfect. The spindle shafts themselves are welded on the front and rosette welded on the back. The laser cut plates are 1/2”. The fit and finish was spot-on. And the empi disc kit bolted up without any issues.
Not saying your wrong. And my car isn’t on the road yet so I can’t disprove what you’re saying.
I know you’re a well known member on here. So I respect what you have to say.
Thanks
Schepp |
I think he was referring to this thread , things may have changed since then
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=577872
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Thanks for posting this article. If this was the member Dusty was referring to, those were EMPI lift spindles that failed. NOT the quality ones from Kustom1. Let’s not diss the wrong company here.
Before installing my set I gusseted them for strength with the plates from Kartek. For strength but also if I wanted to convert to larger tie rods in the future this would already be done.
The tires I plan on running are the General All Terrains 215/75-R15
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: Opinions on class 11 tires. |
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Thanks dirtkeeper.
That 1st is the one image in particular that came to mind when I read in here about installing lifted spindles. Note that shortly after that incident, EMPI stopped selling lifted spindles. And so did some others.
It would be difficult to remember all the threads that have talked about such problems, mostly because they are not generally titled as "broken lifted spindle" threads.
And besides...I can remember things from when I was a child 60-some years ago, but often find myself wondering why I walked to that part of my house.
I'm sure there are some folks who have lifted ball joint spindles that have had no trouble with them. But enough have had trouble that I'm not seeing any ads for them from any source in the last few years.
Note that nobody is manufacturing forged lift spindles for VWs. Although it seems it might be a good market opportunity with sufficient sales interest to justify the manufacture. _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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Brian Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012 Posts: 8340 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: Opinions on class 11 tires. |
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In a funny way, I'm glad those spindles broke on me how they did.
If anyone wants to get lift spindles, its worth just opting to pay a little more to get Thing spindles. Keep the damnd for T181 parts up so both the offroad guys and the niche T181 guys have a supply for parts _________________ Wash your hands
'69 Bug
'68 Baja Truck
'71 Bug
'68 Camper
Only losers litter |
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Boosted60 Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2012 Posts: 21 Location: Pasadena CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Opinions on class 11 tires. |
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So, today i lowered the beam as low as i could and it dropped me right around 3 inches from where it sits now.
From the looks of it, those kustom1 spindles seem pretty nice and im going to order a set and reinforce them like the photos above.
This way i can lift the front end of the car about an inch from where it sits now and have the adjusters in the middle of their travel.
As of right now i have almost no rubbing other than at full lock trying to make a tight u turn.
Ive already jumped it where all 4 wheels came off the ground and didnt get any rub when it landed. A little rub here n there on steep driveways,but i can live with that.
This car really only gets driven around locally and i plan on flat towing it up to the high desert once in a while to mess around on the trails.
So far its been amazing. Put almost 500 miles on it since the new tires. This new dp 1600 is definitely more sluggish than the old sp 1600 that was in it. im starting to wonder if that motor had a cam in it.
All in all im very happy with it so far. |
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Mike Fisher Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 17969 Location: Eugene, OR
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Opinions on class 11 tires. |
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BerT3 in Belgium machined 50 sets of Type 3 dropped spindles a few years back that are still in use today. _________________ https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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