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LAGrunthaner Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2007 Posts: 5506 Location: 1st Coast
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:48 am Post subject: How do our stock oil filters filter contaminants? |
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I still have a difficult time understanding how our screen type oil filters give us filtration of contaminants. Please school me professors.
I saw this video today and got to thinking should I get an Empi spinoff modification for my 1600DP? I prefer stock for good reasons but please educate me.
Link
_________________ American Red Cross Safe And Well:
https://www.redcross.org/about-us/news-and-events/...bsite.html
Maui Roadsters
www.mauiroadsters.com
http://www.oacdp.org
Lind wrote: |
Have you considered simply starting with a nicer bus? I don't know what your skills are, but the race is easier if you can see the finish line. If you are not a runner, don't start off doing a marathon. |
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Pops67Beetle Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2021 Posts: 127 Location: Queens, NY
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:15 am Post subject: Re: How do our stock oil filters filter contaminants? |
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The original oil screens do stop particles from being recirculated back to the oil. On a camping trip I used a brand new one I had on hand to make coffee when someone who shall remain nameless forgot the percolator basket. Anything that can filter coffee grounds will stop metal shavings. My bug has over 330k miles on it and it has never failed ( as far as I know). _________________ When I close my eyes I’m a little kid riding in the cubby..... Priceless!
13 y/o son’s quote while watching us replace the pedal cluster…. “Who says the Germans lost the war.”
67 Beetle bought new, 95% stock. |
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kingkarmann Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2003 Posts: 4111
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:01 am Post subject: Re: How do our stock oil filters filter contaminants? |
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Engine tolerances our old VW are not as tight as they are on modern engines. Therefore, I believe the screens are adequate. Of course full flow is better but i don't think in my particular situation I'm going to feel the need to switch. _________________ "Depression is a malfunction of the instrument we use to determine reality.”
Mike Gerson
What is your "Bespoke Reality"? |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22641 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:31 am Post subject: Re: How do our stock oil filters filter contaminants? |
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They interrupt the flow around the pick up enough to basically let the big chunkies fall out of the oil in circulation and end up on the plate.
Do you know when you see those black streaks around the plenums in a building HVAC? they usually arent coming from the vent, they are particles settling from the room air due to the flow from the vent, a related principle. _________________ .ssS! |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76902 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:45 am Post subject: Re: How do our stock oil filters filter contaminants? |
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The screen protects the oil pump from sucking up something big and getting jammed in the gears and breaking it. It's not a filter. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Manfred58sc Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2009 Posts: 3382
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:08 am Post subject: Re: How do our stock oil filters filter contaminants? |
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Following recommended oil changes makes filtration unnecessary. The oil dies from heat and gasoline contamination, no filter will fix that. Many engine manufacturers had no filters before 1970, just regular oil changes ( every 1000 miles or less depending on circumstance). I'm not saying filters are a gimmick, I am saying its not the only way and VW knew that. _________________ Fat chick owner/operator |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31361 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: How do our stock oil filters filter contaminants? |
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I have CB Performance Maxi2 oil pump/filter units on both my VWs. One of the Maxi2 units is over 40 years old. 26mm gears.
_________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9756 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: How do our stock oil filters filter contaminants? |
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Glenn wrote: |
The screen protects the oil pump from sucking up something big and getting jammed in the gears and breaking it. It's not a filter. |
Like this?
From a couple years ago.
Yeah, I was dumb enough to think that the FF would protect things. Wrong!
I should have run a screen. That was a 1k mistake.
Screens keep chunks out of the sensitive bits of the engine. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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LAGrunthaner Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2007 Posts: 5506 Location: 1st Coast
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:37 am Post subject: Re: How do our stock oil filters filter contaminants? |
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Great information but I'm still uncomfortable about contaminants via the video but understand newer engines needing much less contaminants. I'm going to keep my 1600DP stock but perhaps in the future I'll add the other filter. _________________ American Red Cross Safe And Well:
https://www.redcross.org/about-us/news-and-events/...bsite.html
Maui Roadsters
www.mauiroadsters.com
http://www.oacdp.org
Lind wrote: |
Have you considered simply starting with a nicer bus? I don't know what your skills are, but the race is easier if you can see the finish line. If you are not a runner, don't start off doing a marathon. |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76902 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:47 am Post subject: Re: How do our stock oil filters filter contaminants? |
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67rustavenger wrote: |
Glenn wrote: |
The screen protects the oil pump from sucking up something big and getting jammed in the gears and breaking it. It's not a filter. |
Like this?
From a couple years ago.
Yeah, I was dumb enough to think that the FF would protect things. Wrong!
I should have run a screen. That was a 1k mistake.
Screens keep chunks out of the sensitive bits of the engine. |
The filter is after the pump, the screen is before the pump. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12467
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:55 am Post subject: Re: How do our stock oil filters filter contaminants? |
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LAGrunthaner wrote: |
Great information but I'm still uncomfortable about contaminants via the video but understand newer engines needing much less contaminants. I'm going to keep my 1600DP stock but perhaps in the future I'll add the other filter. |
Much of what you read on the internet and especially YouTube is bullshit. Going on 50 years experience with VW has shown me the stock screen and using oil that meets specs along with regular oil changes is just fine. You could use a filter pump for that extra feeling of well being, like a belt and suspenders 😀
From what I’ve seen plain old neglect is what does these cars in, keep on top of the maintenance. I’ve used 10w30 for years no problems. |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31361 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:16 am Post subject: Re: How do our stock oil filters filter contaminants? |
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Zundfolge1432 wrote: |
You could use a filter pump for that extra feeling of well being, like a belt and suspenders 😀 |
Link
_________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Splitdog Samba Split Personality
Joined: February 16, 2004 Posts: 4125 Location: Planet VW
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:36 am Post subject: Re: How do our stock oil filters filter contaminants? |
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I'd shield that filter. Radiant heat extraordinaire. Especially in AZ. _________________ CH³NO²
Z = z² + C
Der Blitzkrieg Kafers
#notacallooker |
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finster Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2012 Posts: 7935 Location: north o' the border
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:09 am Post subject: Re: How do our stock oil filters filter contaminants? |
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I notice Mrs Cusser just favours suspenders, no belt _________________ "we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut
nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect... |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76902 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:25 am Post subject: Re: How do our stock oil filters filter contaminants? |
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finster wrote: |
I notice Mrs Cusser just favours suspenders, no belt |
In the US we call them a belt, in the UK they call them suspenders. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 34003 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:01 am Post subject: Re: How do our stock oil filters filter contaminants? |
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Is there an engine in that pic? I hadn't noticed. |
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calvinater Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2014 Posts: 3328 Location: 802 The Pointless Forrest
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:20 am Post subject: Re: How do our stock oil filters filter contaminants? |
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I thought in the UK they called suspenders “braces” . _________________ "Albatross"! |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22641 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: How do our stock oil filters filter contaminants? |
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Splitdog wrote: |
I'd shield that filter. Radiant heat extraordinaire. Especially in AZ. |
It should be painted white to radiate best. _________________ .ssS! |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 34003 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: How do our stock oil filters filter contaminants? |
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Abscate wrote: |
Splitdog wrote: |
I'd shield that filter. Radiant heat extraordinaire. Especially in AZ. |
It should be painted white to radiate best. |
Oh, you troublemaker!
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21512 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: How do our stock oil filters filter contaminants? |
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Zundfolge1432 wrote: |
LAGrunthaner wrote: |
Great information but I'm still uncomfortable about contaminants via the video but understand newer engines needing much less contaminants. I'm going to keep my 1600DP stock but perhaps in the future I'll add the other filter. |
Much of what you read on the internet and especially YouTube is bullshit. Going on 50 years experience with VW has shown me the stock screen and using oil that meets specs along with regular oil changes is just fine. You could use a filter pump for that extra feeling of well being, like a belt and suspenders 😀
From what I’ve seen plain old neglect is what does these cars in, keep on top of the maintenance. I’ve used 10w30 for years no problems. |
Sure its just fine....for the "expected lifespan" of those engines in those days.
It was not uncommon for a variety of reasons for type 1 and 3 engines with no filter to need a top end rebuild at 50k (and not because of valve quality)....and a lower end refurb by 85-100k miles. And...that was just fine when quality VW parts were cheap.
However....among improvements to these engines when the type 4 was begun in 1967.....the spin on oil filter was the main part that effectively doubled engine life of bearings.
But its worth noting....just staying with the stock 1600 set up...strainer and no filter....and using modern oil....with same interval change.....has probably given these engines an hnest 30-40% lifespan increase even without a filter. Ray |
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