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W1K1
Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 4916
Location: Southern AB
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 Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:18 am Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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those are pertty nice brackets.
I'm guessing you need to use the OG pin on the front or a bolt, and the sides use the OG slider feet cut off the old seats, although a piece of steel bar could do the same in the stock sliders and be sturdy.
_________________
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php
1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap |
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vbrad26
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2021
Posts: 62
Location: FL
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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| W1K1 wrote: |
those are pertty nice brackets.
I'm guessing you need to use the OG pin on the front or a bolt, and the sides use the OG slider feet cut off the old seats, although a piece of steel bar could do the same in the stock sliders and be sturdy. |
That's what I was thinking.
For the OG pin to work, I'd need to bore out the hole in the bracket.
So I will probably go the bolt route.
I suppose I will try to figure something out for the rail connection.
Not sure if it is even worth calling Corbeau or not... |
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Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:34 am Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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The mounting system on these is pretty much the same as 73- later beetle uses, just wider... I have a set of C382 brackets from corbeau that I ordered to install in my 73 super, and they actually have a square piece of steel that is meant to be slipped in the stock rails, and secured with a bolt into a threaded hole.
If yours didn't come with any I think it would be very easy to fabricate, a square of steel stock, drill and tap a hole, and a grade 10.9 metric bolt.
For the front pin I would just drill out the bracket to accommodate the stock pin. A bolt would work too, but then you may as well remove the rest of the OG stuff associated with it.
_________________
73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!
Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884
Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087! |
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vbrad26
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2021
Posts: 62
Location: FL
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| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:42 am Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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| Lingwendil wrote: |
The mounting system on these is pretty much the same as 73- later beetle uses, just wider... I have a set of C382 brackets from corbeau that I ordered to install in my 73 super, and they actually have a square piece of steel that is meant to be slipped in the stock rails, and secured with a bolt into a threaded hole.
If yours didn't come with any I think it would be very easy to fabricate, a square of steel stock, drill and tap a hole, and a grade 10.9 metric bolt.
For the front pin I would just drill out the bracket to accommodate the stock pin. A bolt would work too, but then you may as well remove the rest of the OG stuff associated with it. |
Yeah that is exactly what I need!
I may reach out to them and see if I can just get those...
Thanks!!! |
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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Another view of the bolt on retainer discussed earlier - I found it in my book while searching for something else. |
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vbrad26
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2021
Posts: 62
Location: FL
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:17 am Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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| ataraxia wrote: |
Another view of the bolt on retainer discussed earlier - I found it in my book while searching for something else. |
Lol thank you for remembering!
With your help, I was able to get everything I needed.
However I have yet to install them yet. Just been too busy.
I have been meaning to lower the front so I was just going to get the bolts and retainers in when I'm buttoning it all back up...hopefully this weekend!
Also hoping to get the seat brackets in.
I reached out to Corbeau and shared the pictures @Lingwendil sent me and they are sending me the little square plates and bolts...so hopefully that will do the trick!
THEN...I can start working on the soundproofing/insulation and installing the carpet kit I ordered.
I also have a headliner. I have not really researched yet, but am I going to need to pop out the glass for that? |
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:38 am Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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| Probably would have been more useful a week ago but I got distracted and forgot about it. |
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vbrad26
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2021
Posts: 62
Location: FL
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:01 am Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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| ataraxia wrote: |
| Probably would have been more useful a week ago but I got distracted and forgot about it. |
Hah no problem. You confirmed what I needed to know, so thanks again! |
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Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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| vbrad26 wrote: |
Also hoping to get the seat brackets in.
I reached out to Corbeau and shared the pictures @Lingwendil sent me and they are sending me the little square plates and bolts...so hopefully that will do the trick!
THEN...I can start working on the soundproofing/insulation and installing the carpet kit I ordered. |
Awesome man! Glad they're able to take care of you!
I just ordered my seats Saturday and I'm anxiously awaiting the shipping info 
Between the seats and brackets it's close to what I paid for the whole car 
_________________
73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!
Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884
Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087! |
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vbrad26
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2021
Posts: 62
Location: FL
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:10 am Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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| Lingwendil wrote: |
| vbrad26 wrote: |
Also hoping to get the seat brackets in.
I reached out to Corbeau and shared the pictures @Lingwendil sent me and they are sending me the little square plates and bolts...so hopefully that will do the trick!
THEN...I can start working on the soundproofing/insulation and installing the carpet kit I ordered. |
Awesome man! Glad they're able to take care of you!
I just ordered my seats Saturday and I'm anxiously awaiting the shipping info
Between the seats and brackets it's close to what I paid for the whole car |
Haha yes! Thank you again.
I'm still trying to figure out what to do for seats.
I sort of got these brackets on a whim, thinking that getting them would probably make my life easier. But I guess we'll see...
I was thinking I wanted to do a more modern seat. But now I'm not so sure. |
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vbrad26
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2021
Posts: 62
Location: FL
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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I have stopped here for the day…
I have lowered it one inner spline from where it was. However the car had already been messed with before I got it.
But it seems as I’m really going to have to fight the arms to get the joints back in. Any tips? I read a bunch in the last week leading up to this but I’d appreciate any tips while I keep looking. |
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vbrad26
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2021
Posts: 62
Location: FL
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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| Shouldn’t that top trailing arm have a bit more of an upward angle to it? |
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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The top arms are 'free' - in that they are not held in place by tension like the lower arms. Your drop down more than 'normal' because they don't have bump stops to rest on.
I've found that the easiest method to assembly is to attach the lower ball joints to the spindle and use a floor jack under the lower to raise it up to the upper ball joint while lining it up to go into the mount hole. Since you don't have bump stops and the top arms drop down further - you might be able to line up both at the same time.
The other way is to install the ball joints on the spindle and raise it up into both control arms at once using a floor jack. |
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vbrad26
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2021
Posts: 62
Location: FL
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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| ataraxia wrote: |
The top arms are 'free' - in that they are not held in place by tension like the lower arms. Your drop down more than 'normal' because they don't have bump stops to rest on.
I've found that the easiest method to assembly is to attach the lower ball joints to the spindle and use a floor jack under the lower to raise it up to the upper ball joint while lining it up to go into the mount hole. Since you don't have bump stops and the top arms drop down further - you might be able to line up both at the same time.
The other way is to install the ball joints on the spindle and raise it up into both control arms at once using a floor jack. |
Ah ok yeah that makes sense. But I was thinking I would have to find a way to jack up the top arm.
I can get the lower joint in, but then I have to raise the upper arm up quite a bit to get the upper joint in.
Everything a saw/read didn’t seem to have this issue. But the missing bump stops makes sense in this case.
Didn’t really think about them since they weren’t there!
I suppose I’ll keep messing with it. Thanks! |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22407
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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| vbrad26 wrote: |
| ataraxia wrote: |
The top arms are 'free' - in that they are not held in place by tension like the lower arms. Your drop down more than 'normal' because they don't have bump stops to rest on.
I've found that the easiest method to assembly is to attach the lower ball joints to the spindle and use a floor jack under the lower to raise it up to the upper ball joint while lining it up to go into the mount hole. Since you don't have bump stops and the top arms drop down further - you might be able to line up both at the same time.
The other way is to install the ball joints on the spindle and raise it up into both control arms at once using a floor jack. |
Ah ok yeah that makes sense. But I was thinking I would have to find a way to jack up the top arm.
I can get the lower joint in, but then I have to raise the upper arm up quite a bit to get the upper joint in.
Everything a saw/read didn’t seem to have this issue. But the missing bump stops makes sense in this case.
Didn’t really think about them since they weren’t there!
I suppose I’ll keep messing with it. Thanks! |
Keep in mind, that once you get 1 side put together, that you'll be fighting against the upper sway bar to get the side you're working on in. It's just how it works (load 1 side or the other).
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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vbrad26
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2021
Posts: 62
Location: FL
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| vbrad26 wrote: |
| ataraxia wrote: |
The top arms are 'free' - in that they are not held in place by tension like the lower arms. Your drop down more than 'normal' because they don't have bump stops to rest on.
I've found that the easiest method to assembly is to attach the lower ball joints to the spindle and use a floor jack under the lower to raise it up to the upper ball joint while lining it up to go into the mount hole. Since you don't have bump stops and the top arms drop down further - you might be able to line up both at the same time.
The other way is to install the ball joints on the spindle and raise it up into both control arms at once using a floor jack. |
Ah ok yeah that makes sense. But I was thinking I would have to find a way to jack up the top arm.
I can get the lower joint in, but then I have to raise the upper arm up quite a bit to get the upper joint in.
Everything a saw/read didn’t seem to have this issue. But the missing bump stops makes sense in this case.
Didn’t really think about them since they weren’t there!
I suppose I’ll keep messing with it. Thanks! |
Keep in mind, that once you get 1 side put together, that you'll be fighting against the upper sway bar to get the side you're working on in. It's just how it works (load 1 side or the other). |
Does taking both sides (driver and passenger) apart make it any easier?
I'm going to copy/paste what I said in another thread...
"I still have not had time to mess with it anymore.
I am going to try everything I have read until something works.
Some people say bolt up the lower joint first. Others say top.
Some say remove the top bolt from the ball joints instead of the lower bolts...I don't know.
Guess I'm just going to throw the kitchen sink at it and see what will work....
I think I am going to bolt the upper joint in and then with the floor jack, jack the whole assembly up so i can get the lower ball joint in.
It is really the upper arm that seems to be the trouble maker, at least in my case.
I was watching a video where a guy needed a spring compressor (or something) because he needed to bring the arms closer together, but I actually need the arms further apart!" |
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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| vbrad26 wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| vbrad26 wrote: |
| ataraxia wrote: |
The top arms are 'free' - in that they are not held in place by tension like the lower arms. Your drop down more than 'normal' because they don't have bump stops to rest on.
I've found that the easiest method to assembly is to attach the lower ball joints to the spindle and use a floor jack under the lower to raise it up to the upper ball joint while lining it up to go into the mount hole. Since you don't have bump stops and the top arms drop down further - you might be able to line up both at the same time.
The other way is to install the ball joints on the spindle and raise it up into both control arms at once using a floor jack. |
Ah ok yeah that makes sense. But I was thinking I would have to find a way to jack up the top arm.
I can get the lower joint in, but then I have to raise the upper arm up quite a bit to get the upper joint in.
Everything a saw/read didn’t seem to have this issue. But the missing bump stops makes sense in this case.
Didn’t really think about them since they weren’t there!
I suppose I’ll keep messing with it. Thanks! |
Keep in mind, that once you get 1 side put together, that you'll be fighting against the upper sway bar to get the side you're working on in. It's just how it works (load 1 side or the other). |
Does taking both sides (driver and passenger) apart make it any easier?
I'm going to copy/paste what I said in another thread...
"I still have not had time to mess with it anymore.
I am going to try everything I have read until something works.
Some people say bolt up the lower joint first. Others say top.
Some say remove the top bolt from the ball joints instead of the lower bolts...I don't know.
Guess I'm just going to throw the kitchen sink at it and see what will work....
I think I am going to bolt the upper joint in and then with the floor jack, jack the whole assembly up so i can get the lower ball joint in.
It is really the upper arm that seems to be the trouble maker, at least in my case.
I was watching a video where a guy needed a spring compressor (or something) because he needed to bring the arms closer together, but I actually need the arms further apart!" |
I respectfully disagree with Bob - you won't be fighting the other side if you start with the bottom torsions first. The second side won't be any harder because you'll be working with 'fixed' parts at that point. I've taken apart and re-assembled several dozen front beams - the easiest way to do it, in my opinion, is to start with the lower ball joint, snug the lower bolt then use a jack to lift it up to the upper arm - guiding the ball joint 'leg' into the spindle until you can get the bolt installed. The other side isn't going to be any harder - the upper arm won't flop around and the installation method will be the same. I find the second side to be *easier* because I don't have to hold it in place.
Removing the ball joints and installing them on the spindle first risks damaging the thread on the ball joint if you're not careful and tightening the 30mm nut is more work than the bolts on the spindle. The installation method is largely the same - just bigger fasteners that have to be oriented properly to be installed.
The only way to make it hard on yourself (if you're into that sort of thing) is to start with the top control arms. You might get the first side in okay - especially without bump stops - but the second side will be much harder. |
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vbrad26
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2021
Posts: 62
Location: FL
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:48 am Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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OK so what the two of you are agreeing on though, is starting with the lower ball joints and jacking up the upper arm to get the upper ball joint level to its position in the spindle, and then lowering the jack while guiding the "ball joint "arm" into its "receiver".
I just need to find a 2x4 or something to get the height needed for my floor jack to extend that high...unless you all have another idea? |
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vbrad26
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2021
Posts: 62
Location: FL
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:54 am Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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| ataraxia wrote: |
The other side isn't going to be any harder - the upper arm won't flop around and the installation method will be the same. I find the second side to be *easier* because I don't have to hold it in place.
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I do want to comment on this though because I'm not quite sure I fully understand...
First of all, I have not experienced the upper arm "flopping" around lol.
I have not manipulated it much but it feels like it is under tension just like the lower torsion arm.
Secondly, what are you "holding in place" on the second side?
Currently I am working on the passenger side and I have all of it apart. I have not touched the driver side yet.
There is no benefit in taking both sides apart at the same time and then working on each side, is there? |
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:29 am Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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| vbrad26 wrote: |
OK so what the two of you are agreeing on though, is starting with the lower ball joints and jacking up the upper arm to get the upper ball joint level to its position in the spindle, and then lowering the jack while guiding the "ball joint "arm" into its "receiver".
I just need to find a 2x4 or something to get the height needed for my floor jack to extend that high...unless you all have another idea? |
Buy a better/taller jack. It's cheaper than an ER visit and faster than doing it the hard way.
| vbrad26 wrote: |
| ataraxia wrote: |
The other side isn't going to be any harder - the upper arm won't flop around and the installation method will be the same. I find the second side to be *easier* because I don't have to hold it in place. |
I do want to comment on this though because I'm not quite sure I fully understand...
First of all, I have not experienced the upper arm "flopping" around lol.
I have not manipulated it much but it feels like it is under tension just like the lower torsion arm.
Secondly, what are you "holding in place" on the second side?
Currently I am working on the passenger side and I have all of it apart. I have not touched the driver side yet.
There is no benefit in taking both sides apart at the same time and then working on each side, is there? |
It's not necessarily 'flop' - bad choice of word, I suppose. The upper torsions are connected together internally by a bar - lifting one side will lift the other side because they're connected. It shouldn't 'flop' around unless it is not connected/secured properly. You should be able to move it up and down fairly easily though with very little/no tension on it. There's nothing inside that creates tension on the upper torsions unless your inner bushings are worn or the outer bearings are roached/eating the torsion arm. It should be smooth travel up and down.
When you connect the first side - it'll hold the upper torsion in place because, again, they're connected internally. It'll make installing the second side easier because you only have to focus on guiding the 'leg' of the ball joint into the spindle and install the bolt.
The one thing you will get by taking both sides apart at the same time is experience. |
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