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richparker
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011
Posts: 6978
Location: Durango, CO
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 Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: 1776 engine and gearbox / transmission upgrade for my 69 Westy |
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| onehappykombi wrote: |
Do you think it would be a good idea to keep the transmission gearing stock and just go from 1600cc to something bigger? |
I do! If you’re overlanding, aka living in your bus, it’s probably got a lot of weight in it and your are likely traveling to many different area’s throughout many different elevations. Keeping the stock 002 transaxle will help you ouch that heavy load around better. It’s sweet spot might be 60-65 mph, not 75 mph, but it’ll maintain those speeds a lot better then with a taller R&P.
And for those who say they go 70-75 “all day” with a stock 002, I call bullshit. I log a lot of miles and sure it’ll do that. But spinning 4000+ RPMs “all day” is not smart. It’s hard on all the components and your gas mileage will go to shit. Besides if you’re driving “all day” you’re bound to hit a hill and a stock or stock-ish engine is gonna slow way down. A larger displacement engine matched to an 002 will keep you going 60-65 up those climbs.
Everyone has a different idea of what functions they want their bus to preform. Some want totally stock, some want it to be slammed, some want speed and others just want it to start and go every time. There really no right or wrong, it’s your bus. Figure out what you want it to do and built it accordingly.
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: 1776 engine and gearbox / transmission upgrade for my 69 Westy |
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| richparker wrote: |
| onehappykombi wrote: |
Do you think it would be a good idea to keep the transmission gearing stock and just go from 1600cc to something bigger? |
I do! If you’re overlanding, aka living in your bus, it’s probably got a lot of weight in it and your are likely traveling to many different area’s throughout many different elevations. Keeping the stock 002 transaxle will help you ouch that heavy load around better. It’s sweet spot might be 60-65 mph, not 75 mph, but it’ll maintain those speeds a lot better then with a taller R&P.
And for those who say they go 70-75 “all day” with a stock 002, I call bullshit. I log a lot of miles and sure it’ll do that. But spinning 4000+ RPMs “all day” is not smart. It’s hard on all the components and your gas mileage will go to shit. Besides if you’re driving “all day” you’re bound to hit a hill and a stock or stock-ish engine is gonna slow way down. A larger displacement engine matched to an 002 will keep you going 60-65 up those climbs.
Everyone has a different idea of what functions they want their bus to preform. Some want totally stock, some want it to be slammed, some want speed and others just want it to start and go every time. There really no right or wrong, it’s your bus. Figure out what you want it to do and built it accordingly. |
1971 doghouse fan, dual port, 1600 (85.5 mm 1584 cc) dual carbs with header, totally balanced and blueprinted. 80+/- MPH Riverside to Lake Havasu once out of the city on reasonably flat and level maybe 10 - 12 times a season. Riverside to Sacramento 80+/- mph once in a while once below the Grapevine. No wind days. Math says about 6K RPM sustained. 5400 RPM Rev limiter had to be removed to get past about 73 mph. I built racing engines for a living at that time in a well respected machine shop known for its Baja Offroad, F1 Cosworth, FF, and SCORE engines.
I would not be so quick to call BS. Average life span of an engine treated like this was 20K to 40K miles but parts were plentiful back in the early 1980's. A typical failure would be an external oil leak that was too much or a pulled stud. Never anything worse really. Eventually the case fatigued and cracked behind #3 at about 250,000 - 300,000 miles worth of rebuilds.
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richparker
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011
Posts: 6978
Location: Durango, CO
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:53 am Post subject: Re: 1776 engine and gearbox / transmission upgrade for my 69 Westy |
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| SGKent wrote: |
1971 doghouse fan, dual port, 1600 (85.5 mm 1584 cc) dual carbs with header, totally balanced and blueprinted. 80+/- MPH Riverside to Lake Havasu once out of the city on reasonably flat and level maybe 10 - 12 times a season. Riverside to Sacramento 80+/- mph once in a while once below the Grapevine. No wind days. Math says about 6K RPM sustained. 5400 RPM Rev limiter had to be removed to get past about 73 mph.
I would not be so quick to call BS. Average life span of an engine treated like this was 20K to 40K miles but parts were plentiful back in the early 1980's. A typical failure would be an external oil leak that was too much or a pulled stud. Never anything worse really. Eventually the case fatigued and cracked behind #3 at about 250,000 - 300,000 miles worth of rebuilds. |
I love these number you throw out there, this one is my new favorite.
| SGKent wrote: |
yep - had a 1971 1600 DP with 750,000 miles on it. Was a real trooper. Went back and forth across the USA so many times successfully. I'd live that life over many times over compared to BS we have today. |
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bigbore
Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2003
Posts: 3297
Location: Wasilla Alaska
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:36 pm Post subject: Re: 1776 engine and gearbox / transmission upgrade for my 69 Westy |
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sorry a little late to the party but I have had a 71 westy with a 1776 norris 329s cam and a 32/36 weber and was just right with the stock three rib and I pulled a 14 foot boat with it. now Iam doing a 1776 for another 71 westy and a 1904 for my 70 westy both will have the stock three rib we have mountains here in Alaska and I will be towing a trailer or a boat so the power will be nice with a stock trany.
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blue72beetle
Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2008
Posts: 846
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:32 am Post subject: Re: 1776 engine and gearbox / transmission upgrade for my 69 Westy |
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I just finished building a Megasquirt Fuel Injected 1776 for my bus. 2-4 doesn't bother me as much, but 1st is like a granny gear now. I can see a different R+P in my future.
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bigbore
Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2003
Posts: 3297
Location: Wasilla Alaska
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:04 am Post subject: Re: 1776 engine and gearbox / transmission upgrade for my 69 Westy |
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you could use a 72 to 74 three rib there a little taller and abit tougher.
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mikedjames
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2012
Posts: 2734
Location: Hamble, Hampshire, UK
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: 1776 engine and gearbox / transmission upgrade for my 69 Westy |
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I run a 1641 around the UK, with a full flow oil cooler, progressive carburettor, and a single quiet pack exhaust.
On most UK motorways it will do 65mph+, and down to about 50mph on some of the motorway hills.
Stock gearbox, and a tyre choice that is 5% smaller than stock - so I am using more RPM for more torque on hills, rather than imagining I could use a Freeway Flyer on a small engine.
Even though my gearbox is currently in the shop being refurbished, I am just going to ask for replacement parts, not any changes.
(After 85000 miles, the main bearing is eating the nosecone, it locks into 4th gear if you coast to a stop with the clutch down in 4th, it whines and leaks oil)
I am happy to run the engine at about 4000-4100 rpm, I improved the sound proofing.
It needed the extra cooling to keep going up some of the hills.
Before fitting the oil cooler, I used to drive it at 250 degrees F, backing off if it got hotter.
A friend has a 1776 with a 34PICT/3, stock exhaust without an oil cooler and stock gearing and tyres, their oil temperature also gets high.
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Ancient vehicles and vessels
1974 VW T2 : Devon Eurovette camper with 1641 DP T1 engine, Progressive carb, full flow oil cooler, EDIS crank timed ignition.
Engine 1: 40k miles (rocker shaft clip fell off), Engine 2: 30k miles (rebuild, dropped valve). Engine 3: a JK Preservation Parts "new" engine, aluminium case: 26k miles: new top end.
Gearbox rebuild 2021 by Bears.
1979 Westerly GK24 24 foot racer/cruiser yacht Forethought of Gosport.
1973 wooden Pacer sailing dinghy |
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richparker
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011
Posts: 6978
Location: Durango, CO
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: 1776 engine and gearbox / transmission upgrade for my 69 Westy |
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| blue72beetle wrote: |
| I just finished building a Megasquirt Fuel Injected 1776 for my bus. 2-4 doesn't bother me as much, but 1st is like a granny gear now. I can see a different R+P in my future. |
Granny gear? What cam did you use?
My first is definitely not a granny gear with my 2175 and stock 002.
I love how these 1776’s are so powerful…
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jack-o-van
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2017
Posts: 109
Location: Milwaukee
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| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2023 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: 1776 engine and gearbox / transmission upgrade for my 69 Westy |
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| richparker wrote: |
Don’t change the R&P of the transaxle, just like the others have stated you will regret it. I have a ‘71 Westy with a 2275cc and the stock 3 rib 002 transaxle, which was rebuilt. It’s a great combo. Plenty of torque to push a heavy loaded bus and it is able to maintain speeds a lot better.
Building a 1776 seems silly to me. If you are gonna pay a machinist to open your case, why not have it opened to accept 94 pistons and build a 1914. It’s not like the price is going to be higher. A 1914 with a PICT34 (with an enlarged Venturi) and a Engle 90 cam is a real stump puller. |
Rich: I'm thinking of the 1914 based on what I've picked up on this thread mostly. I've got a stock-ish 1600 with stock transaxle and want to keep my 34Pict-3 and oil-bath air cooler as well. Nice to know I can do that.
"Enlarged Venturi" - I didn't know you could do that! You don't mean larger jet, do you?
Would that give me better low-speed quickness also?
Jack
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| If he meant it of me, he would have been "spot on" when AeroMech wrote: |
| in my opinion you don't know shit |
| And I love what raygreenwood wrote: |
| I will probably be seen as an asshole for this comment.....but thats fine because I am an asshole. |
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richparker
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011
Posts: 6978
Location: Durango, CO
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| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2023 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: 1776 engine and gearbox / transmission upgrade for my 69 Westy |
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| jack-o-van wrote: |
| richparker wrote: |
Don’t change the R&P of the transaxle, just like the others have stated you will regret it. I have a ‘71 Westy with a 2275cc and the stock 3 rib 002 transaxle, which was rebuilt. It’s a great combo. Plenty of torque to push a heavy loaded bus and it is able to maintain speeds a lot better.
Building a 1776 seems silly to me. If you are gonna pay a machinist to open your case, why not have it opened to accept 94 pistons and build a 1914. It’s not like the price is going to be higher. A 1914 with a PICT34 (with an enlarged Venturi) and a Engle 90 cam is a real stump puller. |
Rich: I'm thinking of the 1914 based on what I've picked up on this thread mostly. I've got a stock-ish 1600 with stock transaxle and want to keep my 34Pict-3 and oil-bath air cooler as well. Nice to know I can do that.
"Enlarged Venturi" - I didn't know you could do that! You don't mean larger jet, do you?
Would that give me better low-speed quickness also?
Jack |
The Venturi is what the air passes thru that mixes with the gas that’s being sprayed thru the main jet.
It would have the ability to pull at low speeds because it would have a lot of torque.
I would find a builder and see if they can build you something that fits your needs.
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