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'59 Karmann Ghia fever
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Trylon
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:27 am    Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever Reply with quote

PeteSC wrote:
Trylon wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


That's going to turn out great, Michael. The details she puts in are something else, most of her her work comes out like photo quality.

Here's a very amateur pencil sketch of my Ghia I did a few months ago:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQFA89EBG9k/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link


I’m lovin’ your sketch Pete!
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1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire

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Trylon
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever Reply with quote

Anybody on this site know anything about VW engines?

Ours has been stumbling since we got it:


Link


We’ve switched out the distributor and carburetor for premo rebulit, stock ones (including vacuum advance) and that has clearly not solved the problem. Heard clogged heat riser might be the culprit (and we will get to that) but is there anything else we can look into?

Yes, I noticed the little puff coming from under the carburetor and thought I had found the culprit. Tighten up the bolts but no love, still stumbling.

If it is of any help, it sounds like those pops are coming from the 3rd cylinder area.
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1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire

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Trylon
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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1973 Volkswagen Bus
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1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire

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overboost
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:21 am    Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever Reply with quote

First check for intake leaks. A can of ether with motor idling, spray the intake manifold ports at the head and under the carb. Just light shots from the cam. Idle changes, you have a leak.

If no leaks, check the accelerator pump nozzle and see if it is squirting fuel down the throat of the barrel. Lastly, make sure your ignition timing is correct. (about 10 degrees BTDC at idle climbing to around 30 degrees BTDC from vacuum advance on side of distributor)
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PeteSC
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever Reply with quote

Trylon wrote:
Anybody on this site know anything about VW engines?

Ours has been stumbling since we got it:


Link


We’ve switched out the distributor and carburetor for premo rebulit, stock ones (including vacuum advance) and that has clearly not solved the problem. Heard clogged heat riser might be the culprit (and we will get to that) but is there anything else we can look into?

Yes, I noticed the little puff coming from under the carburetor and thought I had found the culprit. Tighten up the bolts but no love, still stumbling.

If it is of any help, it sounds like those pops are coming from the 3rd cylinder area.


Take out your spark plugs and see if they're fouled. May also want to check float bowl and jets for debris.


Last edited by PeteSC on Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Trylon
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever Reply with quote

Thanks for the suggestions!

I went and got a can of starter and sprayed it at the suggested places. No idle change so it looks like there is no vacuum leak in those places.

Will continue tests tomorrow.
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1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire

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Last edited by Trylon on Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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overboost
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever Reply with quote

Honestly, the timing sounds late or retarded in the video. Check the timing as your first check tomorrow.
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Braukuche
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 4:04 pm    Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever Reply with quote

Sound like a failed vacuum canister.
Those are Single vacuum dual advance distributer. At initial acceleration the vacuum is supposed to advance the diz until the mechanical kicks in.
I would test the canister by detaching it from the carb and then pop off the cap and suck on it and see if the plate advances.
If nothing happens the diaphragm is ruptured.
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Trylon
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 5:12 pm    Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever Reply with quote

Will check timing next.

We had this problem before the vacuum advance distributor was installed. And Glenn Ring restored it. So I wonder but am willing to try anything. I am so jealous of these engines they pull from the swamp that haven’t run for 30 years and 20 minutes later their roaring without hiccup when the throttle is pulled open.
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1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire

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Braukuche
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:44 pm    Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever Reply with quote

Trylon wrote:
Will check timing next.

We had this problem before the vacuum advance distributor was installed. And Glenn Ring restored it. So I wonder but am willing to try anything. I am so jealous of these engines they pull from the swamp that haven’t run for 30 years and 20 minutes later their roaring without hiccup when the throttle is pulled open.


Unless he is sourcing new ones, the diaphragm in the can is still going to be at least 55 years old.
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Go Reds! Smash state!

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1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
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Trylon
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:11 am    Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever Reply with quote

Braukuche wrote:
Trylon wrote:
Will check timing next.

We had this problem before the vacuum advance distributor was installed. And Glenn Ring restored it. So I wonder but am willing to try anything. I am so jealous of these engines they pull from the swamp that haven’t run for 30 years and 20 minutes later their roaring without hiccup when the throttle is pulled open.


Unless he is sourcing new ones, the diaphragm in the can is still going to be at least 55 years old.


Point taken.
I have also always been concerned that there might not be enough bend in the tube between the carburetor and diaphragm. So let’s check this out.
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1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire

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PeteSC
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:45 am    Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever Reply with quote

Since you recently did some carb tuning and had some hard start/flooding, I’d really pull some spark plugs to see if they’ve become fouled before diving too far into other things. They might be fine, but start with the easy stuff.
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Trylon
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:55 am    Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever Reply with quote

PeteSC wrote:
Since you recently did some carb tuning and had some hard start/flooding, I’d really pull some spark plugs to see if they’ve become fouled before diving too far into other things. They might be fine, but start with the easy stuff.


All for easiest first!
Timing I’ve attempted before and will take that on next.
Never pulled a spark plug. Have a socket and wrench that will work. I seem to recall some concern about the threads in the engine block.
Be great to hear what I should watch out for before I screw up rather than after.
Obviously (to those who have been following along) I have dealt with the vacuum advance connection and distributor installation. My main concern here is a possible insufficient bend in the connection which I understand is there to prevent gas from traveling back to the diaphragm. This may have already happened, hence the possibility of a screwed diaphragm. I fear attempting to change the angle of the bend is likely to crimp the tube altogether.
In any case, as our car has always had this stumbling problem, it is unlikely that the newly installed vacuum advance will be the only cause.
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1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire

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c21darrel
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever Reply with quote

When you replace your plugs, just start the threading in by hand and you will never cross thread one. Keep the wires organized so they go back where they came from. GL Trylon.
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Trylon
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever Reply with quote

Thanks c21!

Well, still on timing:

Removed the distributor cap
Turned engine so it is pointing to cylinder 1
Centered 7/16ths clockwise from only notch on pulley to split in engine case
Loosened distributor
Turned on ignition
Attached test light to coil where wire goes to condenser
Grounded test light
Turned distributor until light comes on

———
So, i wonder why it has to be cylinder 1, wouldn’t 3 do as well?

Have been assuming that notch is TDC as both valves are free at that point.
So 7/16ths clockwise from there is supposedly 7.5 BTDC. Am I close?

Having a devil of a time getting the light to light up. Tested it with the bench supply and it works. Will try again but it seems that it lights up and then quickly goes off and hard to turn on again. Might this point (pun intended) to an issue with the points? I did not have this problem the first time I timed it a while back.
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1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire

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Trylon
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 12:59 pm    Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever Reply with quote

So not sure how well that test light is working (old school Hella). Switched to a voltmeter and could clearly see the jump when the circuit was closed.

Tried both the notch and 7.5 before the notch. I think I had it 7.5 before the notch before we started down this route. Interestingly, on the notch clearly bumped up the idle and seemed to help a bit with the stumbling. But I think the higher idle itself helped with the stumbling and not so much when I brought it back down with the idle screw.

Does the fact the the idle went up indicate that it is timed better than it was?
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1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire

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Braukuche
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 1:07 pm    Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever Reply with quote

Trylon wrote:
So not sure how well that test light is working (old school Hella). Switched to a voltmeter and could clearly see the jump when the circuit was closed.

Tried both the notch and 7.5 before the notch. I think I had it 7.5 before the notch before we started down this route. Interestingly, on the notch clearly bumped up the idle and seemed to help a bit with the stumbling. But I think the higher idle itself helped with the stumbling and not so much when I brought it back down with the idle screw.

Does the fact the the idle went up indicate that it is timed better than it was?


The way those distributors work is that the advance is two staged. First stage requires vacuum to cause the distributer to advance and then beyond a certain RPM the mechanical kicks in. So, if the idle is set high in theory your mechanical advance would already kick in by passing the vacuum. So when you goose it no vacuum to fail. That’s why when you set timing you have to have the idle speed set at a certain RPM.
To me pulling plugs is a PITA and always fraught with problems. Detaching the vacuum line from the carb, and then sucking on it and observing the points plate is easier.
A fouled plug will usually cause a miss at idle and high RPM.
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1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now
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Trylon
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 1:53 pm    Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever Reply with quote

Braukuche wrote:
Trylon wrote:
So not sure how well that test light is working (old school Hella). Switched to a voltmeter and could clearly see the jump when the circuit was closed.

Tried both the notch and 7.5 before the notch. I think I had it 7.5 before the notch before we started down this route. Interestingly, on the notch clearly bumped up the idle and seemed to help a bit with the stumbling. But I think the higher idle itself helped with the stumbling and not so much when I brought it back down with the idle screw.

Does the fact the the idle went up indicate that it is timed better than it was?


The way those distributors work is that the advance is two staged. First stage requires vacuum to cause the distributer to advance and then beyond a certain RPM the mechanical kicks in. So, if the idle is set high in theory your mechanical advance would already kick in by passing the vacuum. So when you goose it no vacuum to fail. That’s why when you set timing you have to have the idle speed set at a certain RPM.
To me pulling plugs is a PITA and always fraught with problems. Detaching the vacuum line from the carb, and then sucking on it and observing the points plate is easier.
A fouled plug will usually cause a miss at idle and high RPM.


It’s funny. I know that’s how the advancing mechanisms work but did not draw the obvious conclusion you did— higher idle would bypass vacuum advance problem.
Convinced, will suck at the vacuum advance tomorrow.
I already suck at most other mechanical things anyway.
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1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire

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Trylon
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever Reply with quote

Well!

Ran an in town errand in our car … and was in for a wonderful surprise!

Started right up!
Choke worked as expected! (Oddly, recently it did not like a lot of choke.)
And as I tooled up the street into town, it felt like someone installed an Okrasa kit while I slept last night!
Never felt the car so peppy and willing to go. Even up hill!
When I parked it back in the barn, I stepped on the gas fast, three times.
Vrrrooommm, vrrrooommm, vrrooommmm.
Nary a stumble!

I guess it’s pretty safe to say we’ve be running it mistimed all this time.

What a difference a few degrees makes.
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1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire

More tomfoolery on
The Karmann Ghia Fever YouTube Channel!


Last edited by Trylon on Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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obus Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:56 pm    Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever Reply with quote

would change of seasons have anything to do with it as well? I always feel when it gets colder these VWs become more temperamental Idle-wise
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