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Wasted youth Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012 Posts: 5134 Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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ToolBox Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 3439 Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
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Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:08 am Post subject: Re: torn ball joint boots: $6-800? |
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skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I had a boot pop that asshole spring that holds it on. very tricky to get them on and NOT punch a hole in the boot.
I know...people do the boots. I swear I can pull the torsion arms faster and press in new ones before I could get all of those spring clips back on |
Call me a hack but I just toss those spring clips and use stainless safety wire and wire pliers and tie them on.
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AirCooledClassics Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2004 Posts: 294 Location: Saskatoon, Sk Canada
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:38 am Post subject: Re: torn ball joint boots: $6-800? |
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I have run an Air cooled restoration shop for 35 years now and I no longer will install ball joints , Replacement boots and tie rods unless all parts are supplied by the customer. I have increased my shop rate 25$ an hour to make up for the lost profit in parts sales. The reason for this is I cannot guarantee the parts I sell. All boots fail in less than a year( on rare occasion they last up to 2 years TRW) And If the cust supplies the parts I am Not responsible. And I don't have to lose my ass doing it again. The Parts we sell are Junk. German ,american or Chinese. _________________ 2010 Bonneville record holder Type 2, 36hp
NHRA Divisional Sports Compact Champion
My You-tube video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJoq3MtsPmc
My National Dragster article
http://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=231552 |
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cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20278 Location: Sandpoint, ID
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: torn ball joint boots: $6-800? |
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AirCooledClassics wrote: |
I have run an Air cooled restoration shop for 35 years now and I no longer will install ball joints , Replacement boots and tie rods unless all parts are supplied by the customer. I have increased my shop rate 25$ an hour to make up for the lost profit in parts sales. The reason for this is I cannot guarantee the parts I sell. All boots fail in less than a year( on rare occasion they last up to 2 years TRW) And If the cust supplies the parts I am Not responsible. And I don't have to lose my ass doing it again. The Parts we sell are Junk. German ,american or Chinese. |
My long time local air cooled shop closed, at least in part, for just this reason. Parts quality is shit, and warranty labor was killing him. _________________ nothing |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22668 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:11 am Post subject: Re: torn ball joint boots: $6-800? |
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AirCooledClassics wrote: |
I have run an Air cooled restoration shop for 35 years now and I no longer will install ball joints , Replacement boots and tie rods unless all parts are supplied by the customer. I have increased my shop rate 25$ an hour to make up for the lost profit in parts sales. The reason for this is I cannot guarantee the parts I sell. All boots fail in less than a year( on rare occasion they last up to 2 years TRW) And If the cust supplies the parts I am Not responsible. And I don't have to lose my ass doing it again. The Parts we sell are Junk. German ,american or Chinese. |
Can you just keep old new and parts in a box and explain why you cant warranty them, and take the labor only job? Customer doesn’t really have an option and it’s not on you at all if you are up front on the How and why. _________________ .ssS! |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16879 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:19 am Post subject: Re: torn ball joint boots: $6-800? |
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people don't want to hear it....and there is something no matter how blue in the face you get explaining something to someone they want you to "own it" for life....example: you repair a leaky oil cooler, but there are still some oil leaks "you just fixed my oil leak" then you want to scream and say, "no, I fixed your leaky oil cooler...there are 300 more places it can leak from"
people just don't get it. and it gets old defending every repair you make. then they jump on here (or other digital media) and get the other folks who have no clue reassure them they got hosed, and slam the name of the shop. _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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thewilly789 Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2015 Posts: 7 Location: Winnipeg,Canada
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: torn ball joint boots: $6-800? |
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Here is my take on the bus balljoint boots.
I was just inspecting my 1978 westfalia an noticed a torn boot.I removed the actual torsion arm-lower so i could properly check over the ball joint.The ball was not tight but loose but not overly loose-orginal 67k miles only on bus.
In the vw manual they say can have up to .080 ball joint play.New ball joint can have .012 play.I measured the torn one at .023 play with no grease or lube in it.I bought a new ball joint but then started reading about how they do not last,nothing like the 100k miles or more of orginals.I then wanted to regrease the existing bj so added a zerk grease fitting to it.Was able to properly drill an tap an clean the old bj.With new grease into it-proper way i can measure no play.Moves just like upper one but know there is some play.I took the boot off of the new-SIDEM brand of bj an got it on the old one-some mod needed.
So i would recommend measuring an properly checking existing-orginal bj.Replace boots if need to but keep orginal bj's if you can.alot less work an cost an you know they will last-as they have-not like new ones. >.080 is 2mm,thats alot of wear so those loose bj's can still be within specs.An last another 100k if mantained with grease .
JMO. |
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Manfred58sc Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2009 Posts: 3382
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: torn ball joint boots: $6-800? |
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Zero warranty on any parts, been that way for 2 years at my shop. I don't care where its "made". I horde OG for my stuff so that is is sorta drivable. Sun is setting. _________________ Fat chick owner/operator |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12727 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:57 pm Post subject: Re: torn ball joint boots: $6-800? |
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JMO, thanks for joining us! Care to fill us in on where to get the best ball joint boots? I go through one or two boots every year.
Robbie _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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udidwht Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005 Posts: 3779 Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:39 am Post subject: Re: torn ball joint boots: $6-800? |
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Did a full front end rebuild in spring 2012. Roll forward....noticed while doing my CV boots that both lower ball joint boots are open. Crap parts today folks....crap. Not going to even contemplate replacing them. By the time the over-sized balls joints wear themselves out (many miles later) it will be time to do a rebuild again. _________________ 1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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BUSBOSS Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 2161 Location: Northern California
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Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:15 pm Post subject: Re: torn ball joint boots: $6-800? |
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I am trying to visualize how you would get a new boot over the larger upper ball joint assembly if you are just replacing the boot. It makes sense that you would have to ditch the original clips with stainless wire. _________________ All the redemption I can offer, girl, is beneath this dirty hood
1976 Westfalia
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (sold - but not forgotten) |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50351
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Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:23 pm Post subject: Re: torn ball joint boots: $6-800? |
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BUSBOSS wrote: |
I am trying to visualize how you would get a new boot over the larger upper ball joint assembly if you are just replacing the boot. It makes sense that you would have to ditch the original clips with stainless wire. |
All four ball joints are the same, the top ones just have an eccentric stuck on the taber that can be removed with a puller. |
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RWK Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2009 Posts: 1349 Location: S.W. MI
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 5:51 am Post subject: Re: torn ball joint boots: $6-800? |
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I could make the ball joint press adapters, 459-1/2 is there a large enough need? I have been making the center pin drift tool, (131a) they are popular, many sold. _________________ 73 Type 181
63 Type 113
63 Type 261- 428 071
62 Type 241-378 025 178 530 |
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BUSBOSS Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 2161 Location: Northern California
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:05 am Post subject: Re: torn ball joint boots: $6-800? |
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Wildthings wrote: |
BUSBOSS wrote: |
I am trying to visualize how you would get a new boot over the larger upper ball joint assembly if you are just replacing the boot. It makes sense that you would have to ditch the original clips with stainless wire. |
All four ball joints are the same, the top ones just have an eccentric stuck on the taber that can be removed with a puller. |
That makes sense. A puller like this?
_________________ All the redemption I can offer, girl, is beneath this dirty hood
1976 Westfalia
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (sold - but not forgotten) |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12727 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:10 am Post subject: Re: torn ball joint boots: $6-800? |
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I use a pitman arm puller, available for rent from Flaps. Three-jaw pullers set correctly also work for me. I haven’t tried that style above, but I don’t think it would work for eccentric bushings.
Robbie _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: torn ball joint boots: $6-800? |
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Yes you can use a tool like that, and also two hammers like the image online below. Set one hammer against one side and hit the other. Usually that will break it loose. Leave the nut on so parts don't go flying.
_________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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BUSBOSS Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 2161 Location: Northern California
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: torn ball joint boots: $6-800? |
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airschooled wrote: |
I use a pitman arm puller, available for rent from Flaps. Three-jaw pullers set correctly also work for me. I haven’t tried that style above, but I don’t think it would work for eccentric bushings.
Robbie |
Thanks guys. I will get a pitman puller. I appreciate the advice _________________ All the redemption I can offer, girl, is beneath this dirty hood
1976 Westfalia
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (sold - but not forgotten) |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16879 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: torn ball joint boots: $6-800? |
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RWK wrote: |
I could make the ball joint press adapters, 459-1/2 is there a large enough need? I have been making the center pin drift tool, (131a) they are popular, many sold. |
why? unless you can make it cheaper than 189 bux
https://vw.snapon.com/SpecialToolsDetail.aspx?itemId=2800108 _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12727 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:48 pm Post subject: Re: torn ball joint boots: $6-800? |
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BUSBOSS wrote: |
pitman arm puller |
This is the style you'll need; I've not tried others but there are plenty of ways to skin cats.
With that, there is only one orientation the puller can reliably grab the eccentric bushing while staying centered on the stud. Rotate the ball in its joint until things line up.
Keep the nut halfway threaded on, so the ball joint threads are recessed a little. This will keep the puller centered and prevent the thing from exploding when it lets go. A large crescent wrench or vise grips are best to hold the puller from rotating. If you feel like you're tightening it as much as you can, go a little tighter, then try the hammer method under puller tension.
PB'laster it the night before, and again before doing the job. PPE mandatory for this one!
Robbie _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50351
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:25 pm Post subject: Re: torn ball joint boots: $6-800? |
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airschooled wrote: |
I use a pitman arm puller, available for rent from Flaps. Three-jaw pullers set correctly also work for me. I haven’t tried that style above, but I don’t think it would work for eccentric bushings.
Robbie |
They come in different sizes, I would guess that one of the sizes would work. I have a smallish two armed puller that makes easy work of removing the eccentric, but next time I will try the ball joint style puller shown. |
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