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Vanagon Engine Swap Out.. WBX to Air Cooled
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Just8aV8
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Engine Swap Out Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
If you had any serious interest in the Philly unit, there are several of us either in or not far from Philly who could probably look closer.

It looks like a repaint which throws up all sorts of red flags.

Dave


Ya, notice there is no pic of the drivers side.

Thats a mighty generous offer. I think it would be a waste of time. The fact that he didn't even know how many speeds the trans was or even WHAT IT WAS, says all I need to know.

Seam rust? You can see where it's pulled away in a pic he sent me. No Thanks, I would rather do pan work. Think I need to keep looking, it was just close, or closer to me than a Ca. car.


Last edited by Just8aV8 on Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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Just8aV8
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Engine Swap Out Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
Just8aV8 wrote:
Tried to convince me it was a 3 speed manual trans until I asked for a pic of the shifter. Makes you wonder what bone head things have been done to it.


Makes you wonder which gear he can get it to go into.

Quote:
Oxyboxer, Now that sounds interesting, although I know absolutely ZERO about what all that would entail, sounds like a 2 year project, not to mention all the little improvements and mods my twisted little mind would have to invoke along the way... I cruised that site with the 1600 conversion but, am I to understand I could use the boxer block and build a completely AC'd engine, no coolant?


You can pay someone like Rocky Jennings to do the required machine work to convert a WBXer to an aircooled. The advantage over a Type 1 is you are getting a sturdy aluminium case which is designed to handle a 76 stroke crank without being beat apart. The WBXer uses a much improved thrust bearing as well so the bottom end should be able to last 300K miles or more.


Pretty sure I could do all the machine work myself, with the exception of an align bore, gave those boring tools/fixtures away long ago.

I just need to research which pieces/parts I would need to assemble. Might go this way AFTER the new unit shows up, all in good time...
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:19 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Engine Swap Out Reply with quote

Do you plan to drive it in the winter ? One of the nicest things about a W/C Van is the heat.
Yea, VW/Porsche designed an Air Cooled engine and it was great until they realized that is dirty and noisy.
That 2.0 is a great engine in a Bay Window. Been lots of mile behind the wheel in one.
2.4 Config will need proper cooling on both oil and air flow. I watch with interest.

Stacy
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:11 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Engine Swap Out Reply with quote

16CVs wrote:
Do you plan to drive it in the winter ? One of the nicest things about a W/C Van is the heat.
Yea, VW/Porsche designed an Air Cooled engine and it was great until they realized that is dirty and noisy.
That 2.0 is a great engine in a Bay Window. Been lots of mile behind the wheel in one.
2.4 Config will need proper cooling on both oil and air flow. I watch with interest.

Stacy


My main goal in all this is to get away from extraneous necessities required to keep a vehicle running. Eliminate water cooled and allot drops off that list.

My first was a 64 bug. Heat wasn't much, for sure but there are a few different options for aux heat, not a concern, even though I live in a cold area.

I really like the ideas coming out of this post. Especially the boxer block - air cooled option. I'll be looking into that after I get a unit into my hands and config'd the way I want it. That will be rev 2.

Too bad hi pressure, mechanical, direct injection, air cooled, diesel magic isn't out there somewhere. In my mind, that would be the best. You could burn almost anything, properly processed of course.

I'm sure things will come together with perseverance.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Engine Swap Out Reply with quote

There is actually a great van in the classifieds now. Air cooled with tasteful mods and a pooched engine for 7 K in Oregon.

Aussan Brown Westy with GW alloys and fresh top.
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Just8aV8
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Engine Swap Out Reply with quote

16CVs wrote:
There is actually a great van in the classifieds now. Air cooled with tasteful mods and a pooched engine for 7 K in Oregon.

Aussan Brown Westy with GW alloys and fresh top.


I looked at that one a while back, I think it had a bigger price tag on it then, cant remember how much though. Doesn't look too bad, on the surface. I am always leery of cars from salted, road states for obvious reasons. No mention of rust is suspicious, could be a diamond in the rough though, even with a 2.5k shipping charge. That's bargain basement numbers.

I'll check it out.

Thank You
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Engine Swap Out Reply with quote

I would think it would be less than $1500.00 to transport that. AC are not my thing but that van looks like the perfect candidate at 7K. I love buying dead cars with blown up motors. Chances are it’s something cheap. Recent rebuild gone wrong.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:52 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Engine Swap Out Reply with quote

16CVs wrote:
I would think it would be less than $1500.00 to transport that. AC are not my thing but that van looks like the perfect candidate at 7K. I love buying dead cars with blown up motors. Chances are it’s something cheap. Recent rebuild gone wrong.

Stacy


Locked up doesn't sound cheap. Quotes I have seen from Ca. locale are in the 2k range, think times have changed.

I'm with you though, a solid, rust free car with bad powertrain is a winner, winner! Especially at that price, IF it's solid...
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Engine Swap Out Reply with quote

That van is now gone.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Engine Swap Out Reply with quote

Better luck next time!
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Engine Swap Out Reply with quote

If this was a 4 speed and ONLY some surface rust, I would pounce.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2502165
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Engine Swap Out Reply with quote

Just8aV8 wrote:
If this was a 4 speed and ONLY some surface rust, I would pounce.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2502165


Still hawking vans. I am looking at this one again, now that a buddy said he would give me a complete, running, 83 tin top 4 speed.

Anyone know if the transaxel is a direct bolt in/swap out and how much trouble it would be to swap in the 4 speed shifting linkage into an auto van like this one? Maybe just a fab'd bracket adapter for the hole in the floor to mount the shift mech/plate to up front?

I could run it until the automatic smokes and then swap in a built 4 speed. We all know an auto wont stand up to a built engine, hell even 4 speeds beg for mercy and never seem to last long enough. Built ones do a little better...
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:24 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Engine Swap Out Reply with quote

the autoboxes have proven to be quite robust.
more so than standard boxes when it comes to the added torque of different/bigger engines.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:32 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Engine Swap Out Reply with quote

borninabus wrote:
the autoboxes have proven to be quite robust.
more so than standard boxes when it comes to the added torque of different/bigger engines.


I don't know, and Anyone, please correct me if I am wrong.

Unless the internals differ greatly from their American counterparts, (fiber clutches, planetary gears, etc, I cant imagine any auto having much "robust-ness" left after 100-150k miles. Could be wrong though...
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:11 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Engine Swap Out Reply with quote

the ATs are more robust than the 4spds..
though VW did put an additional friction disc & planetary gear on units going over 150hp. (audi&Porsche ATs till 1992)

of which I have very serious doubts you'll attain in a naturally aspirated air cooled engine... comparing to the HP&Tq of a 1989 5cyl turbo Audi 200 (~168hp)

we have quite a few here running 2.5l Subaru's @165hp and 1.8Ts at 225hp.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Engine Swap Out Reply with quote

danfromsyr wrote:
the ATs are more robust than the 4spds..
though VW did put an additional friction disc & planetary gear on units going over 150hp. (audi&Porsche ATs till 1992)

of which I have very serious doubts you'll attain in a naturally aspirated air cooled engine... comparing to the HP&Tq of a 1989 5cyl turbo Audi 200 (~168hp)

we have quite a few here running 2.5l Subaru's @165hp and 1.8Ts at 225hp.


Thank You, that is good to know. It's just that VW auto's are completely foreign to me, I have built performance 4 sp's in the past that survived 267hp (dyno'd) with naturally aspirated strokers. Granted, it wasn't my daily driver and NONE of them lasted very long, no matter what I did. 6 runs at best before tear down, back in the Berg haydays...
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:17 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Engine Swap Out Reply with quote

Resurrecting this thread...

I have found a 1984 water cooled gas camper. Reading back through this thread, it seems the only mod's needed is heat (no big deal) and the fact that, if an air cooled 2.0 is installed, the engine shroud/tin needs to be trimmed to fit the engine compartment sealing gasket.

For those in the know, is this the only mod that is required to fit an air cooled engine into the compartment that originally held a water cooled?

Is it a direct bolt up to the trans? Any TO bearing, clutch differences/issues, all the same?

Are all the transmission gear ratios the same?

Is it the same transmission design, 1982 and 1984? In other words, will a 1982 trans bolt into a 1984 with no issues?

Are the motor mount bolt hole locations on the frame the same? How about the cross bar/mount, the same bar and bolt pattern on the block?

Any other considerations I have missed?

I ask because a friend of mine has a complete air cooled, 1982, 2.0 tin top he will give me to pull the swap off.

I read up post, that someone pulled off a air cooled to water cooled swap, so I am thinking that the tin is the only issue.

This is a nice van and it's close. I will probably keep the water cooled for a while, just asking in case I want to swap it out at a later date, who knows, I might just keep the WC engine, if it can be salvaged/built/modified to my liking and reliability standards.

Thanks for all your help guys, I'm getting closer...
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Engine Swap Out Reply with quote

I went the other way, water-cooled engine (85) into air-cooled chassis (81). Everything was identical in my swap EXCEPT because I went auto-to-manual, the engine sits 2 inches rearward and I had to redrill new mounting holes into the frame rails.

I think if you stayed 4-speed it would be a straight bolt-up. Because I didn't decouple the trans I cannot answer about the TO bearing, clutch etc. Clutch kits are identical between air and water cooled though.

My mounting bar was identical, the transmission mounts were identical - I had also been told the trans mount was different between auto and manual but I laid them side-by-side when pulled and they were absolutely the same.

I see the axle part numbers differ tho between air and water, hopefully someone can answer to that. I swapped the water-cooled 4-speed axles into the 81 chassis though and had no problems.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:53 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Engine Swap Out Reply with quote

Thanks Leecat, that answers most of the questions.

Still thinking about that oxyboxer thing...

Having option on engines and trans leaves the door open for multiple configs.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:58 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Engine Swap Out Reply with quote

leecat wrote:
I went the other way, water-cooled engine (85) into air-cooled chassis (81). Everything was identical in my swap EXCEPT because I went auto-to-manual, the engine sits 2 inches rearward and I had to redrill new mounting holes into the frame rails.

I think if you stayed 4-speed it would be a straight bolt-up. Because I didn't decouple the trans I cannot answer about the TO bearing, clutch etc. Clutch kits are identical between air and water cooled though.

My mounting bar was identical, the transmission mounts were identical - I had also been told the trans mount was different between auto and manual but I laid them side-by-side when pulled and they were absolutely the same.

I see the axle part numbers differ tho between air and water, hopefully someone can answer to that. I swapped the water-cooled 4-speed axles into the 81 chassis though and had no problems.


So if what I am reading is correct, when you go manual, that manual trans is longer than the auto and that pushes the engine back 2 inches. Correct?

Hard to believe that VW would change the engine cavity/opening just for a auto trans...
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