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Rifai.Ad Samba Member
Joined: December 24, 2019 Posts: 47 Location: Trollhattan, Sweden
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:43 am Post subject: Sudden backfires and severe loss of power |
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A few days ago, a weird (but as of then insignificant) problem appeared: minor loss of power, windows of erratic idle, and extremely hard starting. These symptoms quickly developed and crippled my bug to the point that I can no longer trust to go into normal traffic with it. The symptoms I have right now are lots of backfires in very quick succession when accelerating, severe power loss (can barely get moving in 1st gear), and very hard idle. What is weirder is that these symptoms seem to diminish sometimes for a few minutes before coming back (usually when I have to start moving at a traffic light on the highway. Why do we have traffic lights on the highway, I have no clue ). I have checked the valve clearance (adjustment was not due, but I did it anyways) and all of them were at 0.006 like I like them. I have made sure the HT leads are plugged correctly in the distributor and spark plugs, I made sure all wires to and from the coil are tight in their places, and I tried to spot sparking from the HT leads in the engine compartiment (although I did not look too hard). Starting is even harder than before, as the engine only sputters while cranking and hardly starts actually operating. The idle seems stable at first, but windows of severe instability appear during the stable idling, which sometimes causes the engine to die.
A very weird combo of symptoms. Does anyone know what could cause this? |
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Matt Wilson Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2005 Posts: 2406 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:49 am Post subject: Re: Sudden backfires and severe loss of power |
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How is your ignition? Maybe points or something loose/wrong inside distributor. _________________ 1972 Standard Beetle
1969 Baja Beetle |
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Rifai.Ad Samba Member
Joined: December 24, 2019 Posts: 47 Location: Trollhattan, Sweden
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:03 am Post subject: Re: Sudden backfires and severe loss of power |
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Matt Wilson wrote: |
How is your ignition? Maybe points or something loose/wrong inside distributor. |
Didn't open the distributor just yet (haven't reached that point of bug ownership ) but I'm sure it's just as easy as doing anything else on this car so I'll open it up tomorrow and check the gap, file down the points and perhaps spray a little WD-40 on the cap just in case it's got water in there somehow. |
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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11739 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Sudden backfires and severe loss of power |
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Sounds like a bad condenser. _________________ Let's do the Time Warp again!
Richard O'Brien |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Sudden backfires and severe loss of power |
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Look at the plastic block that rubs on the cam inside the distributor, if it snaps off it'll run as you describe. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Rifai.Ad Samba Member
Joined: December 24, 2019 Posts: 47 Location: Trollhattan, Sweden
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Sudden backfires and severe loss of power |
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busdaddy wrote: |
Look at the plastic block that rubs on the cam inside the distributor, if it snaps off it'll run as you describe. |
Will do, I'll keep you posted!
Tim Donahoe wrote: |
Sounds like a bad condenser. |
I've got one in the shopping cart ready in case the normal stuff doesn't work. |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33875 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: Sudden backfires and severe loss of power |
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Timing slipped?
Point hold down screw is loose?
Advance mechanism broken inside distributor? |
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birddog1 Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2006 Posts: 950
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Sudden backfires and severe loss of power |
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Could be several things but sounds reminiscent of when I'm starting my bug back up after a winter sleep. Usually it's junk in the jets of the carb and/or points need clean and re-gap. .
. |
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Rifai.Ad Samba Member
Joined: December 24, 2019 Posts: 47 Location: Trollhattan, Sweden
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Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:12 am Post subject: Re: Sudden backfires and severe loss of power |
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Problem solved. Looks like the distributor cam worn off so much that the ignition breaker was not lifting at all. Literally no point gap. It's incredible how it ran like this so far.
Adjusted the gap to 0.016, adjusted the timing, and it now runs like new! I'll be sure to grease the cam a bit like the others around here have suggested. |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Sudden backfires and severe loss of power |
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Good job!, now check and set (if needed) your timing, altering the points gap changes the timing. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Rifai.Ad Samba Member
Joined: December 24, 2019 Posts: 47 Location: Trollhattan, Sweden
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Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:09 am Post subject: Re: Sudden backfires and severe loss of power |
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busdaddy wrote: |
Good job!, now check and set (if needed) your timing, altering the points gap changes the timing. |
I'm suspecting the timing slipped as well in the mean time since I had to turn the distributor a fair amount to get it set to...whatever angle the notch on my pulley is cut in at . |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31268 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:18 am Post subject: Re: Sudden backfires and severe loss of power |
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Rifai.Ad wrote: |
Problem solved. Looks like the distributor cam worn off so much that the ignition breaker was not lifting at all. Literally no point gap. It's incredible how it ran like this so far.
Adjusted the gap to 0.016, adjusted the timing, and it now runs like new! I'll be sure to grease the cam a bit like the others around here have suggested. |
Yes, wore down the rubbing block on the points. Always make sure to put a little dab of grease on the distributor cam where it contacts that rubbing block.
Folks neglect to do this, and end up like you experienced. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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viiking Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2013 Posts: 2666 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:28 pm Post subject: Re: Sudden backfires and severe loss of power |
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Cusser wrote: |
Rifai.Ad wrote: |
Problem solved. Looks like the distributor cam worn off so much that the ignition breaker was not lifting at all. Literally no point gap. It's incredible how it ran like this so far.
Adjusted the gap to 0.016, adjusted the timing, and it now runs like new! I'll be sure to grease the cam a bit like the others around here have suggested. |
Yes, wore down the rubbing block on the points. Always make sure to put a little dab of grease on the distributor cam where it contacts that rubbing block.
Folks neglect to do this, and end up like you experienced. |
And preferably high-temperature grease like disc brake grease as I was told as a kid. _________________ 1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3 |
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scrivyscriv Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011 Posts: 2918 Location: Memphis
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tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: Sudden backfires and severe loss of power |
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When shopping for points and condenser consider buying NOS rather than brand new. _________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33875 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:28 am Post subject: Re: Sudden backfires and severe loss of power |
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I am a fan of old-fashioned point systems over electronic, but even German Bosch parts have had occasional quality problems with the rubbing block, all the way back to the '70s!
Always carry a spare. Cheap, easy to change. |
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