Ignition switch puzzle

[kbuck]

I am a new Thing owner without much mechanical expertise (bad combination, right?), but I am learning fast.

When I first started the Thing, the ignition was finicky, and I had to try several times for ignition. This problem worsened. I took the vehicle to a local mechanic who seemed to be able to get the ignition to work by moving some of the wires that plug into the ignition switch; and he said I needed a new ignition switch.

I purchased a new ignition switch and manage to replace it without too much difficulty, but it did not work.

Here is the weird part. If I connect the ignition connector plug to the ignition switch outside of the key cylinder and use a screw driver to turn it, the ignition works every time... whether the old ignition switch or the new. No jiggling of wires needed.

I have confirmed that the key cylinder is working properly and that the end that fits into the ignition switch is turning with the key. But it is almost as if the key cannot turn quite far enough to activate the switch. I have tried both keys that came with the car. And I have purchased another identical used key cylinder and compared them, confirming that there does not seem to be any damage to the one installed.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

[wbailey2112]

Based on the symptoms it sounds to me that you may have an issue with one of the conductors coming into the connector that plugs into the ignition switch.

When you are able to start it with a screwdriver with the ignition switch separated from the lock cylinder or with the second switch you are most likely bending the wires and/or the connectors inside the connector housing. This bending is helping to make the connection when the wires are bent.

When they are straightened and plugged into the switch on your steering column one of them is losing it's continuity (i.e. there's a break somewhere in one of the conductors).

Have you searched the Type 181 forum using terms like "ignition switch" to see if anyone else has every experienced this issue?
_________________
'74 Thing
'83 Westfalia

[mondshine]

Here's a sketch of the plug at the ignition switch.

30 is a heavy red wire from the supply side of fuse #10.
15 is a black wire from the supply side of fuse #1.
X is a red/black wire from the headlight switch.
50 is also a red/black wire leading to the starter solenoid.

With the plug installed on the ignition switch, probing from the front of the plug (where the wires emerge)...
30 should carry battery voltage at all times.
15 should carry battery voltage with the ignition switched on, and in the "start" position.
X should carry battery voltage with the ignition switched on, but not in the "start" position.

Hope that's helpful; good luck, Mondshine
50 should carry battery voltage with the ignition switch in the "start" position.

[kbuck]

Thank you wbailey2112 and mondshine for your input (no pun intended). I agree that the most logical explanation is a broken electrical connection that is positional, not an issue when the ignition switch is out of the key cylinder but problematic when the ignition switch is mounted.

I suppose the next step is to get a volt meter and check the output at the plug, and perhaps try it in various positions, in an effort to identify which wire is the problem.

I'll post the results.

Again, my gratitude for your assistance.

[mondshine]

The individual disconnect terminals can be removed from the plastic plug and examined.

With age, they become fatigued and no longer make a positive connection.
Often, they can be removed and after a gentle squeeze with a pliers, can be restored to their original tight fit.

Alternatively, the individual terminals can be replaced with standard 1/4" (6.3mm) open barrel disconnects (with locking tab). They look like this:

It's best to have a proper crimping tool for open barrel terminals for this job.
I love my Hozan 707.

Here's a sketch to illustrate terminal removal:

Insert a small jeweler's screwdriver, or similar object into the small cavity next to the terminal.
Once the locking tab has been displaced, the wire and its terminal can be pulled out.

If the terminal is to be re-used, the locking tab must be restored to its original position.

Good luck, Mondshine

[kbuck]

Thanks, again.

I am more confused than ever now, though. I thought I identified the problem terminal with a multimeter and pulled it. It looked fine, not corroded, oxidized, or separating from the wires. I did not crimp or replace it, but I did apply some dielectric grease. But that did not solve the problem.

When I connect the plug to an ignition switch outside of the key cylinder and start it by turning the ignition switch with a screw driver, it starts up every time. I can bend and wiggle the plug wires while trying to start it outside the key cylinder, and it does not seem to make a difference -- again, starts every time.

Maybe it is not an electrical problem but a mechanical one. The stem on the key cylinder seems to turn properly using the key. But it seems like I have to turn the ignition switch with a screw driver farther than the key will turn. I know that does not make much sense, but I grasping at straws.

[kbuck]

Seems I partially solved the dilemma. It is both an electrical AND mechanical problem.

There is a very slight amount of rotational play in the ignition harness plug. With the ignition cylinder reassembled and using the key, if I turn the key to the start position with my right hand, while torquing the ignition harness plug the opposite direction with my left hand, it starts properly.

Now I just need to find out why there is this rotational give in the plug and how to correct it. I did remove all the terminals and crimped them gently, but that did not seem to make a difference. I wonder if the slot in the ignition switch for the ignition cylinder shaft has gotten "stretched" by the screw driver such that I need that slight rotation to make the ignition contact. Since they are inexpensive, I ordered another ignition switch.

I guess worse case scenario, I will be the only one who knows how to start the Thing.