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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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 Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:49 pm Post subject: Re: PROPER Oil Drain Plug torque 2.0 |
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I let Team torque calibrate my clicker torque wrenches. They rarely change after that. I build a spread sheet with dial vs actual, cut it out and tape it to the wrench with clear packing tape. Then when I want a torque I dial in the correction. Beam wrenches don't change unless damaged or physics change.
example of correction that is cut out and taped to wrench:
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21512
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:07 pm Post subject: Re: PROPER Oil Drain Plug torque 2.0 |
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| telford dorr wrote: |
I've seen those. Thought about getting one. Just out of curiosity, how often do they need recalibration? Does their calibration drift with time, usage, or both? |
The part which makes them work....a strain gauge....similar in electrical function to a wheat stone bridge module....rarely if ever gets out of whack. Typically what gets out of whack is the build quality....power supply, circuit board quality etc.
Usually they break something...connectivity, display or keypad function wise...before they get inaccurate.
Ray |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21512
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:25 pm Post subject: Re: PROPER Oil Drain Plug torque 2.0 |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
If you are seeing a torque wrench getting out of spec the way you say they are then the steel in the spring can not be up to snuff. You are talking about a minuscule number of cycles over a few years compared to what a diesel truck engine see, maybe over the life of the wrench the difference is somewhere about one/millionth as many cycles.
If the torque wrench design is getting up close to the yield point of the steel in the spring, then I would say its a design problem, and if you where to leave the torque wrench screwed in continually to only half its maximum reading any loss of spring height should totally disappear. Your problem could well be that the steel is over stressed when you screw a 75 ft*lb torque wrench up to 65 ft*lbs or so and what you need to do instead is use a 150 ft*lb torque wrench calibrated to its mid range and forget backing the adjustment off after each use or even once a day. |
You are right...across a spectrum of what you noted.
Really...the wear and change....its poor quality springs...and/or...poor quality spring prep (meaning whether each end is ground flat and seats flat) and/or wear in the detent.
Ask yourself what you are paying for a torque wrench. If its priced nicely.....direct from the mfg and no profit for middle man....if its under $200-250.....you are buying junk no better or worse than HF or Sears.
This does not mean that its NOT functional. If you have ever seen a spring winding machine...you will realize how ...not so precise it is. Then the springs have to be tempered...then ground on each end and checked on a spring machine and graded.
Then there is the spring in the detent ball t the adjustment point in the middle of the torque wrench....yada, yada, yada.
This is all aside from the "other" important parts of manufacturing like the ratchet gear, the hardening on that part.....a poor job of which on one lot cost us $20,000+ in torque wrenches that had to be replaced....so its not simple...the pawl that locks, the machining of the head casting, the spring loading on teh single push button....etc. etc.
For a cheap torque wrench....$100 and less...making these REALLY accurate.....unless you really want to spend labor and money.....is all about the 1.5 minutes of calibration on the line....and what you plan to advertise/warrant its accuracy to.
However.....and I can tell you this is fact....not one single person or builder here...uses their torque wrench at an industrial level. I am not kidding.
These guys will spend 8-10 hours a day. The wrench is used on an average of about 8 clicks every 5 minutes.....5-6 days a week. Really....its as bad on the ratchet mechanism.
BUT...aside from the clicks...keeping it loaded....is a LOT of fatigue. There is no comparison from a torque wrench to a valve spring on a head...which also fatigues. If you are bothering to check, valve springs left partially compressed sitting in a barn read totally different than those left in the closed position.
But on the valve spring...the variation is not huge.....not significant on a valve spring (for the most part)...when you look at the total tension they run.....but on a torque wrench......what's a 10-15 lb variation worth to you?.....on a rod bolt? .....on a type 4 exhaust stud?
The variations on a torque wrench I am speaking of....are real.
And again.....how much do you guys use your torque wrenches? Ray |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22641
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:41 am Post subject: Re: PROPER Oil Drain Plug torque 2.0 |
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| And again.....how much do you guys use your torque wrenches? Ray |
About one day of the above industrial use in my entire life
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Disko72
Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2017
Posts: 27
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:45 am Post subject: Re: PROPER Oil Drain Plug torque 2.0 |
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So, if I am still getting a leak, with 22nm pressure on this bolt, and a new copper washer, is the bolt or case definitely stripped? Could the washer just not be set right I noticed it moves quite a bit on the bolt? Thx. D
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:28 am Post subject: Re: PROPER Oil Drain Plug torque 2.0 |
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this is the drain washer or the oil strainer nut. Oil Strainer nut is 9 ft lbs or the case can break inside.
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21512
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: PROPER Oil Drain Plug torque 2.0 |
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| Disko72 wrote: |
| So, if I am still getting a leak, with 22nm pressure on this bolt, and a new copper washer, is the bolt or case definitely stripped? Could the washer just not be set right I noticed it moves quite a bit on the bolt? Thx. D |
If its the actual drain bolt.....22nm is 16 ft lbs. Not very much torque. So make sure your torque wrench is spot on.
Also....check to see if the crush washer is "crushing". Also...check to make sure you actually have a crush washer and not a copper or aluminum flat washer.
With age......all threads leak a little. Thats what the crush washer should stop.
Back on the first page of this thread....RWK noted that these threads actually have steel thread inserts in them. Something that for some reason I never noticed...learn something every day!
This does not mean they cannot wear with age and use. I would check teh crush washer. Ray |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50337
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: PROPER Oil Drain Plug torque 2.0 |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
If its the actual drain bolt.....22nm is 16 ft lbs. Not very much torque. So make sure your torque wrench is spot on.Ray |
I would certainly be better to use a stud here that was long enough to bottom out in the threaded hole in the case half. As a guess you could then safely go over the recommended torque by 50%.
On my 1800 I got a 10.9 (or 12.9?) bolt that was long enough to reach to the bottom of the threads and then shortened it just enough to make it so it could be properly torqued down. Cheap, easy preventative measure. |
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