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Bug53 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2021 Posts: 704 Location: Pawcatuck, CT.
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Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:43 pm Post subject: Okay I'm going out on a limb here popping mid- high RPM's |
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I have a 1600 DP that I just put a set of KS Kadrons on with EMPI manifolds.
Sparxwerks SVDA.
Fuel Pressure at 1.5-1.75
Timing at 32 (vacuum line plugged)
130 Mains, 60 idles.
Good compression.
Idles smooth as silk, make good power with aggressive throttle.
Not too much stumble but its there along with the popping between 1800 -3500RPM.
I have gone up with jets, I have gone down with jets, I have done the accelerator pump mods to give a bigger shot, I have synchronized carbs to NASA levels of accuracy with the balance tube both on and off.
Checked with a Uni-syn both ways too.
Here's the question.
Could this engine be off by one tooth on the camshaft and still run at both ends of the spectrum but go to snap crackle pop at no load rpm's between 1800-3500. It really cracks and misses at the higher end. |
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Vanapplebomb Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010 Posts: 5417 Location: Holland, MI
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:27 am Post subject: Re: Okay I'm going out on a limb here popping mid- high RPM's |
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Often times I have found this to be ignition related. Classic weak spark symptoms.
First thing I am usually suspicious of is the condenser (if you have points)
Then, check the coil. For points, 3-4 ohms primary, 8K-9K ohms secondary.
How do the spark plugs look?
Points clean/gapped? (or ignition module functioning?)
Check spark plug wires. Unless they are resistorless, 3K-5K ohms is common… same with spark plugs with a built in resistor. _________________ 1800 Type 4 Berrien 295
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
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Bug53 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2021 Posts: 704 Location: Pawcatuck, CT.
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:55 am Post subject: Re: Okay I'm going out on a limb here popping mid- high RPM's |
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It has made no difference with two standard distributors and a pertronix which also was used.
I have a Bosch blue coil which I will measure the resistance in. |
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Dougy Dee Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2004 Posts: 1669 Location: Niagara Region, CANADA
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:18 am Post subject: Re: Okay I'm going out on a limb here popping mid- high RPM's |
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Low battery voltage will result in odd things happening with ignitions. |
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Lingwendil Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009 Posts: 3988 Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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johnnyvw164 Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2020 Posts: 573 Location: South of Raleigh
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:14 am Post subject: Re: Okay I'm going out on a limb here popping mid- high RPM's |
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Didn't someone recently post a picture of EMPI manifolds that were way off center? Could that be the issue? |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9969 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Okay I'm going out on a limb here popping mid- high RPM's |
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It may be a weak or broken valve spring. I had one on an intake valve one time that drove me crazy for months! Look at the valve springs for a crack. You need to get up close and personal with it.
I just had 2 bad coils that produced popping at higher RPMs.
I also had fuel filters cause this because of a lack of fuel volume.
And then there is jetting. You could try stepping up the idle jet. That jet is still in the game a little bit. Maybe it is a little bit off.
Next thing is, what is the compression ratio of the motor? _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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mikedjames Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2012 Posts: 2745 Location: Hamble, Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: Okay I'm going out on a limb here popping mid- high RPM's |
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I just swapped a distributor with points and condenser for another one after having hesitation and stumbles around 50 mph in my bus, and having to give it a lot of gas to go at any speed - so that the AFR went down from 12.5:1 to 10.5:1.
It was great after the swap - really all I did was swapped a shiny looking new condenser for a dirty old condenser ; the old one ran well, the new one was bad.
A few months back I had swapped in that new condenser and it ran well, but it degraded over a few thousand miles until I started doubting making it through a 200 mile trip. _________________ Ancient vehicles and vessels
1974 VW T2 : Devon Eurovette camper with 1641 DP T1 engine, Progressive carb, full flow oil cooler, EDIS crank timed ignition.
Engine 1: 40k miles (rocker shaft clip fell off), Engine 2: 30k miles (rebuild, dropped valve). Engine 3: a JK Preservation Parts "new" engine, aluminium case: 26k miles: new top end.
Gearbox rebuild 2021 by Bears.
1979 Westerly GK24 24 foot racer/cruiser yacht Forethought of Gosport.
1973 wooden Pacer sailing dinghy |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12728 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: Okay I'm going out on a limb here popping mid- high RPM's |
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If the engine runs well in any RPM, the cam teeth are most likely fine.
Are the carbs ported for vacuum advance? Hook that up, if you can. Here's a quick and free test to see if that will help:
In the driveway on a warm engine, advance your timing 6-8 degrees and test for pops by revving through the offending range. Any better? Vacuum advance will help. No change? Look elsewhere.
Make sure to set the timing back before putting the car back on the road and loading up the engine.
Robbie _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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Bug53 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2021 Posts: 704 Location: Pawcatuck, CT.
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: Okay I'm going out on a limb here popping mid- high RPM's |
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Dougy Dee wrote: |
Low battery voltage will result in odd things happening with ignitions. |
Solid 13.5-14 VDC back there static but have to check while running. My fancy timing light will tell me.
Last edited by Bug53 on Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bug53 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2021 Posts: 704 Location: Pawcatuck, CT.
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: Okay I'm going out on a limb here popping mid- high RPM's |
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Lingwendil wrote: |
Sounds like ignition related for sure. My new engine was like this, and the timing light showed massive timing scatter on the 009 when revved. Swapped in a different distributor after fiddling with the 009 on it, timed it, and it went away entirely.
Could be voltage related, quick test is to power the coil directly from the battery terminal on the alternator. |
I will try that with the lead from the battery. My new "high tech" timing, dwell, tach., gauge drifts all over. My old reliable high voltage timing light is a lot more stable.
Puzzling why she will run like a boy when I put my foot in it. |
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Bug53 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2021 Posts: 704 Location: Pawcatuck, CT.
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: Okay I'm going out on a limb here popping mid- high RPM's |
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Solid 13 volts at idle 14 volts with the revs up a bit.
Spark is strong will jump an inch to the distributor cap while each is individually pulled and re-inserted.
The only common denominator on this engine now are the EMPI piece of crap manifolds one of which was bad from the get go, replaced by Kaddie Shack and plug wires which are all new in April and wire core, not resistor wires.
I am thinking of re-working the manifolds and smoothing out the bores and ridding of the slag puddles and rough sand texture. Also lowering the web where they mate further down the tubes.
Last edited by Bug53 on Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9772 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: Okay I'm going out on a limb here popping mid- high RPM's |
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Bug53 wrote: |
The only common denominator on this engine now are the EMPI piece of crap manifolds one of which was bad from the get go, replaced by K.S. and plug wires which are all new in April and wire core, not resistor wires.
I have been hit with EMPI screw ups so many times now it's almost automatic to blame the parts they sell. The only thing I have bought from them that wasn't garbage were a set of wheels. |
Continually bitching about parts that you didn't research before purchase, spent money on, and tried to install.
Won't change the fact, that they are shit parts!
You have posted a few threads regarding part quality. On the VS part thread you are wrong. If you read the fine print. You would have realized, that you have to machine the parts you bought. That's your fault, for not reading thoroughly the part description.
Either figure out what it takes to make the parts fit. Or bin them.
I have done this many times. When I bought shit parts, while learning what works, and what doesn't!
WTF is K.S.? _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Bug53 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2021 Posts: 704 Location: Pawcatuck, CT.
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:32 am Post subject: Re: Okay I'm going out on a limb here popping mid- high RPM's |
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67rustavenger wrote: |
Bug53 wrote: |
The only common denominator on this engine now are the EMPI piece of crap manifolds one of which was bad from the get go, replaced by K.S. and plug wires which are all new in April and wire core, not resistor wires.
I have been hit with EMPI screw ups so many times now it's almost automatic to blame the parts they sell. The only thing I have bought from them that wasn't garbage were a set of wheels. |
Continually bitching about parts that you didn't research before purchase, spent money on, and tried to install.
Won't change the fact, that they are shit parts!
You have posted a few threads regarding part quality. On the VS part thread you are wrong. If you read the fine print. You would have realized, that you have to machine the parts you bought. That's your fault, for not reading thoroughly the part description.
Either figure out what it takes to make the parts fit. Or bin them.
I have done this many times. When I bought shit parts, while learning what works, and what doesn't!
WTF is K.S.? |
Have you ever heard of Kaddie Shack?
Post a link for some Kaddy manifolds and I'll jump right on it. With 6500 posts you surely have the time to research it for me. |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21520 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:57 am Post subject: Re: Okay I'm going out on a limb here popping mid- high RPM's |
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And.....you noted this issue is with NO LOAD.....between 1800 and 3500 rpm.
What exactly do you mean by "no load"?
Do you mean steady state, flat land cruising.....that kind of no load?....or.....
Driving along at that rpm range and taking your foot all the way off the pedal in gear?
If its the 2nd one......it could be as simple as an exhaust manifold leak or a muffler joint leak. Ray |
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Bug53 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2021 Posts: 704 Location: Pawcatuck, CT.
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: Okay I'm going out on a limb here popping mid- high RPM's |
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raygreenwood wrote: |
And.....you noted this issue is with NO LOAD.....between 1800 and 3500 rpm.
What exactly do you mean by "no load"?
Do you mean steady state, flat land cruising.....that kind of no load?....or.....
Driving along at that rpm range and taking your foot all the way off the pedal in gear?
If its the 2nd one......it could be as simple as an exhaust manifold leak or a muffler joint leak. Ray |
Steady flat or slightly downhill with just enough foot in it to keep it going forward, or motoring along in second gear through my small town barely moving along through congestion.
Or just sitting on my stool behind the car holding the throttle.
At certain rpms the car would just die right out if I don't goose it with a little squirt from the acc.pumps. |
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