Campers with Upgraded Type IV engines - Personal experiences

[metahacker]

Hi,

Can any of you with upgraded T4 motors share a bit of your subjective/personal experience about your hot rodded configuration, the characteristics of how your bus drives after the modifications and your location?

I'm curious if anyone is running something like a big stroker with nickies or something wild, and how that compares to a more mild hi-perf build... and, most particularly, what your bus is like going up really extreme hill climbs - specifically, the ones where you see the big riggers falling way back, putting on their hazard lights, etc... the kind of stuff you see out west in the US.

Any dyno HP/TQ numbers? Will she pull 80 up said big-rig-punishing hills?

What does it really take to push a bus 80 up a huge hill? 100HP? 120 150 180?
While going being able to accelerate "faster" is always nice, I think that's the magic bit of information I wonder about most.

I wish I had the formulae and specs on-hand to easily perform that calculation from a physics/engineering perspective. I assume one could speculate simply based on frontal area, drag coefficient, GVWR, torque range vs gearing, grade %, etc.

[Wildthings]

[metahacker]

yeah, a turbo would be ideal due to the load sensitive nature

that said, i think having just a bit more than 60- something HP in a micro RV would be sufficient just how much , however, is not clear ..

i don't believe EJ22 Subaru guys who went to all that trouble for a "measly" naturally aspirated 130HP are unhappy .. but can't say i've heard a ton of first hand specifics ..

[SGKent]

Maybe we might reconsider this. Asking a VW bus to act like a modern SUV is like trying to train a donkey to be a quarter horse. Each has its own purpose. VW detuned the bus engines to keep them from melting. You can just retune it to make max power and deal with the cooling problems. Be aware that the 4th gear area of the transmissions have some plastic parts that already melt with the heat from 2L buses as they are. So it isn't just the engine that you will have cooling issues with.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[metahacker]

sgkent i love you but you always post this curmudgeon stuff every time i try to have any discussion about anything other than a stock bus - next you will tell me to buy an acura suv. i get it. i bought my wife an audi q7 with ~350 hp...and before that she had a q5 tdi with almost 450lbft of torque .. guess what car we take our family in 90% of the time? the bus.

people are doing this stuff every day with vanagons with basically the same transmissions and much heavier vehicles. they just dont have the forums dominated with negative nancy hater stuff, they have people trying to move forward with innovative solutions and advance the state of the art beyond everyone doing the exact same thing like robots.

you are clearly a very intelligent guy - try to have more of an open mind. the bay window bus community could benefit from it.

the problems you will jump to point out are solvable --
proper tuning exists, proper AFR and timing alone solves 99% of cooling problems people have with buses, and magical things like nikasil cylinder/piston sets and ceramic coatings completely redefine the whole landscape for vintage air cooled engine building. many higher output engines simply running proper tuning (as advanced and applied by our commonplace use of wideband sensors in aftermarket tuning in recent times) will easily run much cooler than even a stock motor that would normally be running it's "proper" 14.x:1 AFR (which just makes it run much hotter than it needs to in lieu of max power or max economy).

there is no need for every thread of thinking out of the box to turn into a need to petition you for permission to make a bus perform better than a 60HP joke. you're a smart guy - you understand how to put together a stock bus very well - but please, with all do respect, get over yourself.

there is so much more to state of the art engine building and engine management beyond what's in your archived tomes of VW service manuals that can be applied to vintage volkswagen engines.

do i have your permission to conduct this discussion without this thread simply being sabotaged with naysaying?

a community cannot thrive and grow with a closed-minded protectionist attitude, clinging only to what has existed in the past, it can only achieve long term attrition.

[cmonSTART]

I keep having this recurring dream of a turbo or supercharger on my T4 and a different ring and pinion in my trans.

I have no idea how I would keep it cool but I'm really intrigued by this!


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'78 Bus 2.0FI
de K1IGS

[TrollFromDownBelow]

if you want HP, I would seriously consider a Subie swap. In the end it will probably cost you less mod'ing a type 4. It cost me about $5k to rebuild a bone stock engine with quality parts (I did splurge on Len's heads).

YMMV
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1976 Westy (aka Tripod)
2.0 liter FI solid lifters
212k miles

[danfromsyr]

here's a thing for the OP, they can't put a Subaru engine in a 75+ bay in California.

and that one thing to note that while going up Mtns is that you lose HP with the gain in elevation..
the internet says

[Abscate]

You get tough but true love here in the Samba. But, when no one shares the magic unicorn tears that turn a type Iv case into a 100 HP motor that lasts, you will learn that.
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.ssS!

[skills@eurocarsplus]

for you to accomplish what you want you'll need to move out of California. that's the real answer

Jake Raby wouldn't even bother to sell to CA because of what it took to get a T4 to make the numbers you're asking about...it would never pass emissions

so you're pretty much stuck running a stock bus out there if it falls into the category of being smog compliant.

but to answer your question you need about 200 h/p and proper gearing to make it happen

just watch the first 30-40 seconds of this shitty vid i made. i'm shifting into 4th at 80. real 80, not vw 80...as in the speedo was recalibrated and within 1 mph of a GPS


Link


as i recall, the P in MPH on the speedo is about 120. shit gets real in a bus at 120.

bottom line is you're stuck with what you have out there. the only mod you may get away with is a solid lifter cam that will ditch the hydraulic lifters.

the only way you may pull this off out there is if governor Adolf lets you swap a Tesla driveline in. no way are you going to get the performance you seek any other way
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[Bleyseng]

[Abscate]

The first part of CA emis in sions is having stock or approved parts.

Putting stuff on to “ pass emissions “ then putting non compliant stuff will cost you a lot of cash
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.ssS!

[Cap10323]

IMO it's not economical to try and get performance figures like that out of a Type4 engine.

Go Subaru, 2.0 VW, or other water cooled 4 cylinder at that point.
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-Ian

'77 Westfalia - 2.0 F.I

[notchboy]

[SGKent]

[airschooled]

Use cageless hand-packed needle bearings and all is fine there. Real off-road racers have been doing it with 091s for decades. Next problem.

Consider solving the Type 4-specific issues the Porsche way instead of the American Muscle way: build a high compression short stroke/large bore engine designed to spin 6,000 RPM all day and gear it correctly.

Speed just costs money; how fast do you want to go? And how much BS can you put up with at low RPMs?
Robbie
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Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com

[SGKent]

[Clatter]

[SGKent]

[Clatter]

As for cost/dollars, Jake's Camper Special sold at LN is a really good way to make the most power for your bucks.

Well-engineered combination gives a bit bigger valves to match a better-flowing exhaust,
Plus more cam duration on the exhaust lobe to help move heat.
The CR is then upped to compensate for the duration and even more for some efficiency.

Downsides include the cost (obviously) the chance you might not pass smog (if you have to) and,
Like Robbie said,
A bit less drivability.
My bus with a similar setup doesn't like to be lugged in traffic when loaded.
Sitting in holiday weekend stop-and-go sure does suck-and-blow.
Cammed buses are a PITA in traffic.
A bus with a stock cam ad valves will drive like an electric sewing machine by comparison.

While i like to be able to attack hills at high speed and pull it,
It comes with costs.
Especially when the CHT marches over to the right and starts wanting to let those expensive HAM valve seats loose!

You could leave your foot in it pulling that big hill even longer if you pop for some Nickies.
But you'll also cry bigger tears when you melt them.

Did you just win the lottery or get an inheritance or something?
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