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fxr
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Joined: December 07, 2014
Posts: 2325
Location: Bay area CA
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 Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:31 pm Post subject: Water blisters under Interlux Brightside paint |
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For the last few days we've been under the cosh of the 'historic' atmospheric river that's just hit the West Coast, breaking all sorts of records for wind and rainfall.
But today the sun is shining, so I went to attend to a few things that neeeded doing on the van. I was somewhat shocked to see myriads of tiny blisters in the Brightside paint we applied a couple of years ago, and which has been fine all that time. Careful examination shows they have water inside - the pelting rain must somehow have penetrated the surface of the paint but then been stuck inside. Every panel is affected. Hopefully they'll dry out, and hopefully no rust spots will emerge...
Anyone else ever seen anything like this?
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Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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mikemtnbike
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2015
Posts: 2796
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Water blisters under Interlux Brightside paint |
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Ugh. As a fellow brightside user, no I have not and I hope I don't!
And my van was parked outside during Ida's historic dumping on WNC in August.
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fxr
Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014
Posts: 2325
Location: Bay area CA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: Water blisters under Interlux Brightside paint |
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Our van has been under torrential rain several times in the past - no hint of this before though. There are a few threads on sailing forums, but no conclusions.
All Interlux instructions were adhered to when the van was painted.
Stumped.
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Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: Water blisters under Interlux Brightside paint |
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A guess ....... for I don't know the answer but here is a not uncommon home problem.
You have Sheetrock walls...... I see this more in basements, so let's say your sheetrock is below ground level.
No mold, no wetness, no deteriorating sheetrock ....... it looks good so you prep it, and you roll on a coat of primer and then a coat of paint.
Suddenly these little air filled lifted ripples appear in random spots.
Once the paint dries, these ripples often vanish.
What are they? To my best guess it is the result of excessive moisture that entered areas of the wall board (I don't know why) and delaminated the paper from the gypsum. The wetness may be long gone but the delamination still exists.
When the outer face paper is wetted by the paint the paper readily ripples because it is just stretched across a "hollow".
Is it possible that the problem lies with your base coat, not the finish coat?
Those little bubbles are areas not attached to the body. The excessive humidity is somehow affecting the top layer, wetting it and like the paper over the gypsum it bubbles?
Hopefully once dry, it will settle back flat.
Just spitballing here........
Dave
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djkeev
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fxr
Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014
Posts: 2325
Location: Bay area CA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Water blisters under Interlux Brightside paint |
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All spitballs welcome! 
Underneath the two coats of topcoat is a layer of Interlux primer. Underneath that varies - Ospho'd metal, original paint or Bondo. The blisters appear over every combination.
Oh - the Westy pop-top was just sanded then painted with Brightside, no primer. That also has tiny blisters on it, but they are smaller than the ones on the vertical surfaces.
I was hoping that drier weather today might see a difference - but it's now sunshine and showers.
I sincerely hope that drier weather will allow them to disappear, I really don't want to re-paint everything - at least not for many years yet!
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Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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fxr
Samba Member
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Location: Bay area CA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: Water blisters under Interlux Brightside paint |
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| djkeev wrote: |
Did you roll on the paint?
Is every bubble an air air pocket from the roller cover? |
Rolled but then immediately tipped with a brush, as per the instructions.
There is this on their site, relating to blisters:
| https://www.interlux.com/en/us/support/boat-paint-defects/blistering-bubbling wrote: |
Cause 7: Finished coatings above the waterline are subjected to immersion in water such as under seat cushions on cockpit floors and other places where water can pond.
Prevention: Better housekeeping. Stand seat cushions up or place them inside.
Treatment: Scrape open blisters (or entire coating system where required) and sand back to a good firm edge feathering the edges of the intact coatings to give a smooth overlap. Fresh water wash to remove all contamination. Patch, prime and apply finish coatings as required. And ensure water cannot be trapped or pond anywhere
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So just being thoroughly wet for a prolonged period may cause it?
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Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
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djkeev
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Steve M.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: Water blisters under Interlux Brightside paint |
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Find the biggest blister and put a needle into to see what comes out. Water or maybe something acidic.
You could try a hair drier on and area that is not easily visible to see what affect heat has on it.
You have to be careful as the pimples will absorb heat faster and maybe burn. It's unsightly anyway so you're going to fix it, but you don't want burned pimples!
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fxr
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Location: Bay area CA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: Water blisters under Interlux Brightside paint |
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It's definitely water in there, not just air.
Dave, you might have a point about different adhesion levels with rolling. Though I can remember the laying-off with a brush being quite stiff compared to a latex household paint, even though we did use a bit of their thinners (Brushing liquid 333) to ease this.
We're bound to get some dry warm days in the next few weeks. I'm just going to see what happens.
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Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
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DuncanS
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: Water blisters under Interlux Brightside paint |
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The fiberglass was wet before the paint went on. Google fiberglass blistering and moisture content. You need a barrier coat as a salt has created an osmotic pressure creating the blisters. The only solution is to strip back to bare fiberglass, get the saturated moisture content down to acceptable levels and put on the necessary barrier coats. Interlux sells them. A couple of coats of just straight epoxy might be good enough as it's not a boat continuously immersed in salt water. Older polyester resins are prone to this problem on boats.
A very time consuming job and not inexpensive. You could try washing and trying to neutralize the surface. Dry the crap out of it and do a small spot and see what happens. But in any case, you have to get down to bare fiberglass and get rid of both the moisture and the salts.
Oh, and by the way. The moisture could be coming from inside from condensed moisture from being inside on cold days.
Steve M is in the right track when he said: "Find the biggest blister and put a needle into to see what comes out. Water or maybe something acidic." Prick the blister and put a speck of baking soda on it. If it fizzles, it's acidic and definitely an osmotic salt problem.
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leecat
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: Water blisters under Interlux Brightside paint |
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I had read some articles on sailing forums about the Brightside blistering from moisture content - before I painted my own top we fortunately had a spate of 100 degree plus days - I sanded my top and put it outside in the sun for a week and baked it but good, THEN applied the Brightside (in the shade, of course). So far I haven't had any issues with blistering, even in really wet weather.
Of course, now it'll probably crack because the fiberglass was too warm or too dry when applying it - I don't think there's much actual winning with a Westy - you just spend a lot of money and pray that you can tread water. |
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calo1956
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: Water blisters under Interlux Brightside paint |
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I did my fiberglass top with that same product, the fibers were coming through. We wet sanded it, and gave it 3 coats using the same method, roller and tipping off with a foam brush. That was 5 yrs ago, and it came out as smooth as if it was sprayed on, and it still looks amazing to this day. when it gets ugly, I clay bar it then apply a coat of wax. My top is the nicest finish on my van!
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Ride-Fly
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: Water blisters under Interlux Brightside paint |
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This happened to my top that I painted with Brightside white. When I painted it 3 years ago, I sanded twice and primed it, and applied 3 coats. Just this year, I noticed the same bubbles, but didn’t see any water come out of them, even after I pressed them down. One thing I noticed is that these bubbles only happened where the sun hit the paint, i.e. not under the cargo box. This leads me to believe they are sun blisters more than water penetration leading to blisters. I plan on repainting the top with Brightside but adding a clear coat afterwards. Maybe some sort of gel coat.
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Vashon
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: Water blisters under Interlux Brightside paint |
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fxr,
I am a boat boat guy. In fact run a boat yard. I`ve use gallons of Interlux brightsides on projects over many years. My own boat is painted in brightsides and has been for 20 years.
To dial it in a bit, I am wondering did you have a tight cover on your van during or before all the recent rain? You difininity have a humidity related issue but no means a fiberglass bilster issue. only times I have see that is a combo of mosture, a posible thin coat of paint (causes micropores in the film coat ) plus high humidity & heat . As the surface drys out are the bubbles disapearing slighty or at all ?
Tim
87 Westy |
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mikemtnbike
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Joined: March 26, 2015
Posts: 2796
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:34 am Post subject: Re: Water blisters under Interlux Brightside paint |
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Since this is on the sheet metal, I'm guessing it's not fiberglass blistering.
Please let us know how this advances, fxr. I like having extra things to worry about, it's great.
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DuncanS
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Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:31 am Post subject: Re: Water blisters under Interlux Brightside paint |
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Oops. Missed that it wasn't on a Westy top.
Maybe there was water in the paint? I'll bet if you sand and repaint, you'll be OK.
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skills@eurocarsplus
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:07 am Post subject: Re: Water blisters under Interlux Brightside paint |
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in the paint world we'd call that 'solvent pop' which happens when to put too many coats of material on too fast.
not sure what products you used, but it sure looks like solvent pop. typically it would show up way faster than a couple years, but i wouldn't rule it out.
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fxr
Samba Member
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Location: Bay area CA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:44 am Post subject: Re: Water blisters under Interlux Brightside paint |
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| Vashon wrote: |
fxr,
I am a boat boat guy. In fact run a boat yard. I`ve use gallons of Interlux brightsides on projects over many years. My own boat is painted in brightsides and has been for 20 years.
To dial it in a bit, I am wondering did you have a tight cover on your van during or before all the recent rain? You difininity have a humidity related issue but no means a fiberglass bilster issue. only times I have see that is a combo of mosture, a posible thin coat of paint (causes micropores in the film coat ) plus high humidity & heat . As the surface drys out are the bubbles disapearing slighty or at all ?
Tim
87 Westy |
The van is never covered. It's just possible that both the two coats were too thin - but we'll have to wait for some dry weather before I can pronounce any further. Thanks for the insights. 
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1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
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thatbaldwinlife
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Water blisters under Interlux Brightside paint |
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I haven't seen those on my top painted with Brightside. I did see those bubbles after rolling and before tipping like you mentioned. Will keep and eye out as we did paint ours last October but it was pretty dry out.
nate
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