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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51156 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:14 am Post subject: Re: Official Fuel injection questions thread |
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krisbeetle wrote: |
What size is the fuel line going from tank to fuel filter? And then fuel filter to fuel pump?
Also I saw someone say on here that the steel line going through the body of the car is 6mm OD, is this true ? And what is the ID of the steel line? |
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7711793&highlight=#7711793 _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
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krisbeetle Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2005 Posts: 779
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Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: Official Fuel injection questions thread |
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So just to follow up, it was supply issues from 1/4 line coming from tank getting bent and reducing flow more.
Replaced with 5/16 and lots of power and doesn't die under prolonged load.
When draining the tank and using the the pump to drain it with afm flap open to send power. Its certainly didnt seem like it was flowing super fast, as in not much different looking than speed of gravity (maybe even slower). I have verified this brand new pump does 25-35 psi at injector. I dont have anything to reference this kind of thing. Is the pump designed to not flow that much? more psi?
thanks bus daddy |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51156 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:53 pm Post subject: Re: Official Fuel injection questions thread |
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Thanks for following up! _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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Lost69Convertible Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2020 Posts: 447 Location: Rhode Island
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:55 am Post subject: Re: Official Fuel injection questions thread |
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krisbeetle wrote: |
Is the pump designed to not flow that much? more psi?
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When driving on the highway, consider how many hours it takes to use up a full tank of gas. Compare that to how long it took to drain the tank with the fuel line open as you described.
All fluid pumps have a pressure vs. flow rate curve. Max delivered pressure drops as flow rate increases. So it makes sense for the delivered pressure to decrease when you opened the fuel line to pump out the tank. You were operating the pump near maximum flow rate. _________________ 1956 Beetle Ragtop: My Father's car
1969 Beetle Convertible: My first car. I loved it, I lost it, and I never got over it.
1979 Super Beetle Convertible |
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krisbeetle Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2005 Posts: 779
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: Official Fuel injection questions thread |
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Ya, that makes sense. I just remember vw mechanical pumps when cranking engine over seemed to flow alot more than this.... so wanted to verify.
Overall I am a fan of the fuel injection, seems much more fuel efficient and I can see why you guys fight to prevent people from ripping the system out. I have more confidence in doing a longer trip with FI. I would probably just take a spare fuel pump (even though mine is brand new) and some FI rated hose, (as well as the usual points, coil, condenser). |
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Maltboy! Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2006 Posts: 137 Location: Santa Fe, Texas
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: Official Fuel injection questions thread |
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According to the VW AFC manual:
For the volume test, the pump should push out no less than a liter a minute when free flowing.
For the pressure test, the fuel pressure should be 35-38 PSI with the fuel pump running and the engine off, and between 28-31 PSI with the engine running. The fuel tank should be at least 1/2 full when running the tests. If out of spec, the manual says the pressure regulator must be replaced. Others might have differing opinions on that. |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51156 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: Official Fuel injection questions thread |
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Maltboy! wrote: |
......... Others might have differing opinions on that. |
Sounds right, although I'll add that those factory manual numbers assume you have already installed a fresh fuel filter. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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krisbeetle Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2005 Posts: 779
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: Official Fuel injection questions thread |
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Is this restrictor for crank case emissions leading to intake stock?
It is causing excessive crankase pressure, (oil to come from front pulley and valve covers). If it is allowed to vent I dont get a single drop of oil leaking out of engine. |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51156 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: Official Fuel injection questions thread |
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I've never seen that before, does it have a part number on it?, is your car a California model? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9969 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:30 pm Post subject: Re: Official Fuel injection questions thread |
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Is that in the breather hose? Never seen one of those. _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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krisbeetle Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2005 Posts: 779
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:08 pm Post subject: Re: Official Fuel injection questions thread |
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Yes it is in between the hose going from behind oil fill to the rubber intake boot just past AFM.
That makes sense the., I dont know why someone would put that in there..... |
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MuzzcoVW Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2018 Posts: 1477 Location: Westfield, MA.
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Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2021 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: Official Fuel injection questions thread |
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krisbeetle wrote: |
Yes it is in between the hose going from behind oil fill to the rubber intake boot just past AFM.
That makes sense the., I dont know why someone would put that in there..... |
Does it have any wires connected? I've seen something like that in the classifieds before and figured it was a Cali thing. Possibly this? I've been trying to figure out what this was used on. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2075366 |
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Bugeye54487 Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2021 Posts: 56 Location: WI
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Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: Official Fuel injection questions thread |
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I have an official fuel injection question. Purchased a 78 super beetle convertible. It has been sitting since 1988. I was wondering what should be replaced and should I pull the engine to work on? Or fire it up and see what happens?
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51156 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: Official Fuel injection questions thread |
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Sweet!
Bugeye54487 wrote: |
..............Or fire it up and see what happens? |
I wouldn't, there's alot of 30+ year old fuel lines in there, if the fuel pump actually breaks loose and makes pressure you risk a couple gallons all over the place in less than a minute, things could get real exciting if a spark joins the party.
My minimum list would be pull the tank for a cleaning, pull the injectors and fuel pump and fill them with carb cleaner for a soak, change all the rubber fuel lines as well as the manifold boots and injector base seals (use real FI hose clamps on the lines), flush and blow out the lines in the tunnel and clean the contacts in every electrical plug and connector on the engine.
Dropping the engine may be the better way to go since a look under the tins for rodent or bug nests is usually in order for something sitting that long.
Do it now, or do it later, either way you'll be doing it, why risk damage or a fire jumping the gun? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9969 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:54 pm Post subject: Re: Official Fuel injection questions thread |
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Do the minimum to fire it up. If it fires up, turn it off and start replacing the fuel lines, injectors seals, valve adjust, oil change, fuel filter, air filter and the belt!
You can even fire it up off of starting fluid if needed.
Let’s hear if it starts! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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MuzzcoVW Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2018 Posts: 1477 Location: Westfield, MA.
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Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Official Fuel injection questions thread |
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DON'T even try to fire an F.I. bug thats been sitting that long! Seriously, its not worth the time and especially the risk. All the hoses need to be replaced along with injector seals, oil cooler seals etc. Also the injectors themselves are known to stick if sitting a year...let alone the year i graduated high school. Also depending upon how and where it was stored the condition of the cylinders and rings are in question. I've recently torn down two 1600s and a 1776 that have sat for 5 to 10 years. All were free but the cylinder walls were an absolute mess, cratered from rust from sitting. They may have ran, but would have had massive blowby at minimum. Take your time and do it right. At very least you'll avoid a fire. (don't forget the short hoses on the injectors if you get them freed up) |
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MuzzcoVW Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2018 Posts: 1477 Location: Westfield, MA.
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Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: Official Fuel injection questions thread |
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Not to mention the advice above about the fuel tank and pump. Those stick too |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51156 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: Official Fuel injection questions thread |
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I do like Jim's thoughts on a momentary run, just to listen for a horrible knock, or some other issue that may have been the reason it was parked. Personally I don't like using starting fluid on gasoline engines, too much risk of cracked pistons and broken rings, a tablespoon of gas dispensed from a small squirt bottle into the S boot is a much safer option. If you do it right you can feed it the right amount once it starts and keep it running. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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Bugeye54487 Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2021 Posts: 56 Location: WI
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Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: Official Fuel injection questions thread |
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Thanks everyone for advice. I think I will pull the engine out right away and replace all the seals and injectors. Do you think I could get a decent compression test before removing? Would be nice to know that before removing. |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51156 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Official Fuel injection questions thread |
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That would be a good thing to try, a little light oil (WD-40?) down the holes before the first crank wouldn't hurt either. And hand turn the engine through at least 4 full rotations with the alternator nut first, if a valve is stuck you'll bend it with the starter. Disconnect the plug from the AFM (the aluminum box between the air filter and S boot) before cranking, no need for the fuel pump to try and push some goo into the system. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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