Driving an Air Cooled 2.0 in the CO Mountains?

[col902]

Hi everybody,

Currently considering picking up a 1982 air cooled Vanagon. It isn't located in my area, and I would have to travel to it to buy it, so I have a few questions that I am hoping to get answered here first.

Is the Air Cooled 2.0 manageable at altitude in the mountains of Colorado? Obviously it will be slow, but how slow are we talking? I want to make sure I would be able to drive this van at a reasonable speed on mountain passes and on i70.

It looks like a great van otherwise. Everything is in great shape, nice camper upgrades, and the engine has certainly been maintained.

I am just making sure I am not buying something horribly underpowered for driving the roads around where I live.

[calo1956]

Ahhhh the dream!! I will say from my experience of having a 1980 air cooled Westi,and having just come back from the Catskill Mts here in NY, that I would have my doubts. There were times I was in second gear going up long upgrades! My van used to be able to hit 70 mph, not now in a current rebuild, 60's top. Maybe the 16 inch tires, maybe the rebuild, I dont know, but I will say that my 150 mile trip which I have done twice this month is a little nerve racking, many times doing 40 or 45 mph on hills, but I made it!! So I can only imagine the Rockie Mts and what that would be like!
Im sure there will be many other opinions but this is my real life experience. I do drive Betsy daily but on the Island, its flat and I have no issues. I wish you luck, and I would never trade my air cooled for a water cooled, thats just me. I have modern vehicles that I can go cross country in but my Vanagon I dont think so. I wish you luck, and whole heartedly recommend following your dream. I have owned mine for 41 years and wouldnt trade it for anything!
_________________
Enjoy the ride....
72 bug
80 westfalia

[danfromsyr]

I want to make sure I would be able to drive this van at a reasonable speed on mountain passes and on i70.

the short answer is NO.
the long answer is, What is YOUR definition of reasonable

because to some doing 40mph in the truck lane seems reasonable..
not so much to me.. BTDT and it wasn't on anything called a 'pass' here in NY/PA interstate...

keep looking and save up some more $$ for a later model..

[Mikesarge]

Yeah it’s going to be really slow at altitude/up the big passes. Hazards on, half way to the shoulder, wrapped out in 2nd gear type slow.
_________________
1986 Syncro westfauxlia EJ22
1980 911 SC 3.1

[VeeDubn]

We have a 1980 aircooled; have owned it since February 1998. Yes, it is slow going over some passes (2nd gear, sometimes as slow as 25 mph), but not all passes are created equal. As a caveat, we have our warning sign in the back window!

Would we trade it for anything else? Absolutely not! It is an experience to own, drive, and travel in. We have taken it around the country (Washington state to the east coast and back) several times, including Colorado and the Rocky Mountains (beautiful country!). Ultimately, I think every vehicle and engine is unique - maybe the one you are considering will cruise nicely, but maybe it won't - we have no problem cruising at 70 mph down the highway.

Whatever you choose to do, just remember to enjoy the ride!

[Wildthings]

If all your are doing is driving across the mountains a single time I wouldn't worry that much about having to slow down and use 2nd gear at times. At least you are not in an old splity with a worn out 1300.

Because Denver is at 5000' you can set your timing to 33° BTDC @3800 rpms, hoses off and plugged if it is not set there already.

[coqcitywesty]

No experience with an air cooled, but can attest that even driving a stock 2.1 WBX presents some challenges in Colorado. The Eisenhower Pass (I70) saw us mostly driving in the shoulder hoping we wouldn’t run over glass or nails or other objects as the most speed we could muster was 30 - 40 mph and we were worried about someone running into us at 70-80 mph, even in the slow lane. We also had to tackle a 19% grade heading into Golden Gate Canyon SP, which almost killed the Westy. Stunningly beautiful countryside and spectacular views, but I am awaiting a Subie install before tackling those grades and elevation again. Best of luck.
_________________
1991 Westfalia EJ251, 1972 Volvo 1800 ES

[djkeev]

I never drove an Air Cooled Vanagon n the Mountains.

I have driven late Bays in the mountains.

The Bay is light weight and small compared to the Vanagon. Yet they have the same engine!

If you are one who has a need for speed and desire a VW camper, move forward to the Eurovan.

If you can relax, keep your wits about you and are OK with largely staying off of the Interstate system, you will do just fine in a Vanagon.
It is the journey, not the destination.

I've done the Rockies in an 86 WBX several times........ but not on the Interstate road system, it is just too nerve wracking for it seems that the Interstate System has become everyones own personal race track and YOU are in their way!

Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

[oceanair]

An Air Cooled Vanagon is not for someone who lives in the Rocky Mountains and plans go travel I-70 at 'reasonable speeds.' A 1 off or once a year, sure, if you live there, you will be disappointed. It's also 40 years old now... on the flats, sure. In the Rocky mountain passes. Nope.
_________________
84 Vanagon Pop Top Conversion from Tin Top, 1970 Ghia - all sweet rides! Love em!
Previous: Green 72 Tin Top, White 72 Westy, Blue 64 Beetle, Yellow 71 Squareback, 2014 Jetta TDI Wagon - wish I could have them all back!

[Red Ryder]

DREAM SQUASHERS!😉
_________________
“Most everyone’s mad here. You may have noticed I am not quite all there myself.” — Cheshire Cat, Adventures of Alice in Wonderland

“Scarlett” — 1990 Vanagon Carat Wolfsburg Edition
Tornado Red

[leecat]

Just gotta chime in - tho I HATE being a nay-sayer too...drove a 2.0 air cooled (auto) through the Rockies last year, 35 mph in the truck lane on long grades - and that was pedal absolutely floored. I was holding up fully-loaded logging trucks, let alone regular traffic. Was fine on the dead-flat straightaways tho, if you have a long enough runway you can totally build up to 65 mph and keep it there. I was zero-to-60 on the flat in about 2 minutes.

Cannot remotely compare it to the 'modern' cars we're all used to. It was a lot of fun driving it tho, when you pull in at the end you're like, "I can NOT believe I made it!!!"

You just don't get that thrill of victory in a car you know for sure is going to go the distance - reliability is so boring.

[jlrftype7]

[AndyBees]

In 1986, on the return trip from Alaska in our 1983 Air-cool Tin-top, we come down thru the Rockies (BC, Montana, Wyoming, and Colorado).

Until Colorado, we had mostly stayed in the valleys or was on roads with low speed limits such as the Going to the Sun Road in Glacier. As we worked our way from Dinosaur Nat'l Park over to I-70 via Rifle Co on the west side, I began to notice the struggle. When we got on I-70, best I remember the climb was up, up and up to the pass. I got down to 2nd gear many times. Of course, the Van was loaded with our camping equipment, etc. I was running OE stock size tires (185/75R14 @ 810 revs per mile).

My personal opinion, the engine can handle 3600 RPMs all day, but pushing it to 4000 RPMs and beyond is risky. The heat works on the valve seats. Without all the details, I ended up installing two new AMC heads for those last two road trips.

I liked the 83 Air-cool and ended up driving it back on that very long road trip six more times thru 2003. It is semi-mothballed now with over 220k miles on the odie! I do recall seeing a WBXer broke down on the Alaska Highway with a wobbly water pump shaft. At that point, I realized some of the advantages of an Air-cool.

If you settle on buying it, make sure the engine has all the cooling tin in place as well as the all important T-stat.
_________________
'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003.

[9.5isCanadian]

So I own and drive both an 80 AC 2.0l with a fresh rebuild sunroof van as well as an 87 WBX hightop with motor as purchased.

The WBX is far far more apropiate to high speed interstate driving. Even with the weight of the hightop and as purchased motor, it walks away from my air cooled.
Took the AC through Taho over the pass into Death Valley and across Arizona as well as on all the BC mountain passes, Elkart, Salmo Creston, Kicking horse etc etc the AC is in second gear plodding along, As noted even load transports are held up by the van.

Unless budget or lust for the AC dicates (which I totally respect. I love my AC for the what it is), save a few pennies for a WBX if you don't feel comfortable holding up traffic.

Just my .2 cents (Canadian at that ....... ) so take what its worth to you.


_________________
9 1/2 - missing a few pieces.

1987 Getaway Hightop
1980 Sunroof Vanagon
2018 BMW R Nine T
2012 Golf tdi

[joetiger]

It really depends on how much your nerves can take. Do you get agitated or otherwise out-of-sorts when you're holding up traffic, or when a Semi sits on your rear bumper going up to the Eisenhower tunnel? If the answer is yes, then you need to reconsider. If you're fine with going slow and don't take it personally when traffic flies by, or worse when they're unable to fly by you, then you're probably okay as long as you treat the van the way others have suggested.

My Syncro is admittedly heavy but even with a supercharged inline 4, if I lose momentum (or didn't have it to begin with,) I-70 and US285 in the Rockies can be brutal in spots. Crow Hill eastbound on Highway 285 is a nightmare to climb from a dead stop.

On I70, it's almost preferable to have stop-and-go traffic up to the tunnel or Vail Pass because it levels the playing field--everybody has to go 10 MPH. You wear out your leg on the clutch, though.

I'd say even worse than those roads are the long, drawn-out grades on I-80 in Wyoming. Gravity and a good crosswind unceremoniously sap your beleaguered van of all of its precious momentum and power.

I'm the type that gets agitated, but I've mellowed in these advancing years.
_________________
Joe T.

'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32

"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron

"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond

Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present

www.josephtrussell.com

[col902]

Thanks for the advice everyone

Going to hold out for a WBX or, even better, a subie swap. The search continues!

[Zeitgeist 13]

I wouldn't live in a high mountain area without a forced induction engine. I believe you lose something like 3% of the engine's rated output for every thousand feet of elevation gain. 10k feet would be close to 30% loss in power output.
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[bobbyblack]

I took Mrs. black out to the Denver area in June. I70 westbound has a minimum 55mph. No way in hell a stock 2.1 WBX can get up to that speed when you get on after a RedRocks concert. We also went to see the Stanley Hotel, climbing up Douglass canyon. Nope, SLOW.

Back in my younger years, I owned a few air cooled buses. took several up the Alaska Highway which had plenty of mountains. It was just plain scary.

The long and short; stock engines are just not what present day driving and drivers have come to expect.

First things first: get a bus with as little rust as possible. THEN decide what options you can afford for a transplant. If the bus has rust, you're not going to want to put much into it as far as a transplant is concerned.

Plenty to choose from. If you find an Automatic, perhaps a Subarugears(.com) 4EAT would be practical. If you can find a Dieselgate engine, that is also a good option... There are more, but they all have high dollar'$ associated, so get the best bus you can put your hands on, so its worth the investment.
_________________
'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[coqcitywesty]

OP - Here’s a local option for you - it even has the correct Colorado power plant:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1986-volkswagen-vanagon-westfalia-14/
_________________
1991 Westfalia EJ251, 1972 Volvo 1800 ES

[djkeev]