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maco70 Samba Member
Joined: March 16, 2011 Posts: 456 Location: Montréal, Québec
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:15 am Post subject: Re: Stock 2.1 WBX : Best way to increase the HP and the torque ? |
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Thanks Sanchius !
Do I understand that the main items related to the torque improvement are in this section :
Engine Rebuild - Upgrades new to this build
They are seven items for 1251 $ and mainly are the pistons (95.5 mm), the camshaft and the pushrod ? _________________ Martin from Montréal
1986 Vanagon GL full camper westfalia
(brown/tan interior) |
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GoEverywhere Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2020 Posts: 516 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:54 am Post subject: Re: Stock 2.1 WBX : Best way to increase the HP and the torque ? |
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danfromsyr wrote: |
get yerself some racing stickers..
I think when these are applied with a broken exhaust you get about 5hp per sticker...
though its likely only a 25hp max increase as some stickers effect the same hp modifiers.
but it's good to be redundant, so that when a sticker wears out you don't lose those extra HPs.
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Don't give away the old racer's secret!!! Then EVERYONE will start buying those stickers and they'll get expensive! |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22665 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Stock 2.1 WBX : Best way to increase the HP and the torque ? |
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Don’t put the Shell sticker too close to the Mobil sticker..... _________________ .ssS! |
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sanchius Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2007 Posts: 1452 Location: IN
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:34 am Post subject: Re: Stock 2.1 WBX : Best way to increase the HP and the torque ? |
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maco70 wrote: |
Do I understand that the main items related to the torque improvement are in this section |
No, the reason for the two separate upgrade lists is that the first one is largely internal parts acquired specifically for the engine rebuild and the second is external parts replacing & upgrading stock parts as they wore out (exhaust y-pipe, old injectors, etc) well before the rebuild. It's not that the first list is recommended and the second optional. Together, as a system, the sum of these upgrades has given me an engine thar I'm happy with.
However, without specific before/after numbers for each individual component, one can only guess which of these.mods makes the most, if any, difference vs stock. Some, like the alloy valve covers, are merely cosmetic. Feel free to use whichever mods YOU feel gives you the best bang for the buck. _________________ The Syncro years (2005-16) - The 2WD years (2017-23) - Westy & WBX rebuild spreadsheet - Sanchius & Tuna: The Video
Your gold star membership keeps this awesome list going! |
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9.5isCanadian Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2017 Posts: 465 Location: In your blind spot.
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Stock 2.1 WBX : Best way to increase the HP and the torque ? |
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Torque and horsepower are a product of displacement.
Beyond that you can improve the efficiency of a given displacement (internal engine components) with the addition of improvements to the intake and exhaust systems (external ancillary support systems to the internal components).
So a stock displacement gives “X” hp with stock intake and exhaust system in place. You can moderately improve the hp output by improving the performance of the external ancillary components).
If you increase the gross displacement of the internal components to “Y” you will increase both hp and torque with the stock intake/exhaust systems in place. You can further increase gross hp/torque further with the addition of improved external ancillary components.
There’s no replacement for displacement. The most cost effective way to improve engine output.
Side note: increasing stroke also increase displacement and thus increases output but primarily torque do to the increased mechanical advantage of your crankshaft throw distance increase.
Owen _________________ 9 1/2 - missing a few pieces.
1987 Getaway Hightop
1980 Sunroof Vanagon
2018 BMW R Nine T
2012 Golf tdi |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15144 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Stock 2.1 WBX : Best way to increase the HP and the torque ? |
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maybe toss out some weight
Link
_________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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khughes Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2013 Posts: 747 Location: Phoenix AZ
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: Stock 2.1 WBX : Best way to increase the HP and the torque ? |
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maco70 wrote: |
Thanks Sanchius !
, the camshaft and the pushrod ? |
Camshafts need to be spec'd carefully for what you really want to accomplish. e.g. you'll get the most HP from a cam that will push the max HP, and almost assuredly, the torque curve up into the higher RPMs. And usually narrows the peak range as well. Not really what a brick on wheels needs. More CC's is a gain at any RPM as long as you can feed it and exhaust it.
Have fun _________________ '86 Westy FAS GenV Turbo (Marvin) |
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hdenter Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2008 Posts: 2754 Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Stock 2.1 WBX : Best way to increase the HP and the torque ? |
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How is the oil pressure at a hot idle? If it's just barely high enough to keep the buzzer from going off, then you should at least be thinking about replacing the rod bearings if not splitting the case. On the other hand, if your oil pressure is good, and the end play is good, why split it? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If the oil pressure is good, then do the 2.2 to give you a bump in displacement and compression ratio. Then do some of the other bolt on items as you need. Maybe start with the exhaust and see how that feels. Not enough? Go for the high lift rockers. Manci injectors have a great reputation, too.
Hans _________________ '79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender |
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GoEverywhere Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2020 Posts: 516 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: Stock 2.1 WBX : Best way to increase the HP and the torque ? |
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khughes wrote: |
maco70 wrote: |
Thanks Sanchius !
, the camshaft and the pushrod ? |
Camshafts need to be spec'd carefully for what you really want to accomplish. e.g. you'll get the most HP from a cam that will push the max HP, and almost assuredly, the torque curve up into the higher RPMs. And usually narrows the peak range as well. Not really what a brick on wheels needs. More CC's is a gain at any RPM as long as you can feed it and exhaust it.
Have fun |
Mostly true, though increasing displacement by increasing stroke will move your torque band around a bit. Longer stroke TENDS to be higher torque down low at the sacrifice of high end RPMs. |
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4Gears4Tires Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018 Posts: 3042 Location: MD
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Stock 2.1 WBX : Best way to increase the HP and the torque ? |
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danfromsyr wrote: |
maybe toss out some weight |
Hell yeah. That's why the tin top 7 passenger vans are the fastest. _________________ '87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
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syncro surf Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2017 Posts: 189 Location: Maine
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Stock 2.1 WBX : Best way to increase the HP and the torque ? |
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9.5isCanadian wrote: |
Unless you used to road race motorcycles. Banging gears between 8-12krpm is an ear orgasm in the making..... |
Oh yes ..... remember 2-strokes? |
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hdenter Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2008 Posts: 2754 Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Stock 2.1 WBX : Best way to increase the HP and the torque ? |
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My RD400 was a blast! Miss that bike!
Hans _________________ '79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender |
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khughes Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2013 Posts: 747 Location: Phoenix AZ
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: Stock 2.1 WBX : Best way to increase the HP and the torque ? |
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GoEverywhere wrote: |
khughes wrote: |
maco70 wrote: |
Thanks Sanchius !
, the camshaft and the pushrod ? |
Camshafts need to be spec'd carefully for what you really want to accomplish. e.g. you'll get the most HP from a cam that will push the max HP, and almost assuredly, the torque curve up into the higher RPMs. And usually narrows the peak range as well. Not really what a brick on wheels needs. More CC's is a gain at any RPM as long as you can feed it and exhaust it.
Have fun |
Mostly true, though increasing displacement by increasing stroke will move your torque band around a bit. Longer stroke TENDS to be higher torque down low at the sacrifice of high end RPMs. |
True, but I believe he was just discussing bigger pistons/jugs. Gets a tad pricier talking about crank and rods (or different pin height pistons) as well. _________________ '86 Westy FAS GenV Turbo (Marvin) |
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GoEverywhere Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2020 Posts: 516 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: Stock 2.1 WBX : Best way to increase the HP and the torque ? |
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hdenter wrote: |
My RD400 was a blast! Miss that bike!
Hans |
I have an RD350 that's been my daily driver for the last couple years. So much fun!! |
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GoEverywhere Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2020 Posts: 516 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: Stock 2.1 WBX : Best way to increase the HP and the torque ? |
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khughes wrote: |
GoEverywhere wrote: |
khughes wrote: |
maco70 wrote: |
Thanks Sanchius !
, the camshaft and the pushrod ? |
Camshafts need to be spec'd carefully for what you really want to accomplish. e.g. you'll get the most HP from a cam that will push the max HP, and almost assuredly, the torque curve up into the higher RPMs. And usually narrows the peak range as well. Not really what a brick on wheels needs. More CC's is a gain at any RPM as long as you can feed it and exhaust it.
Have fun |
Mostly true, though increasing displacement by increasing stroke will move your torque band around a bit. Longer stroke TENDS to be higher torque down low at the sacrifice of high end RPMs. |
True, but I believe he was just discussing bigger pistons/jugs. Gets a tad pricier talking about crank and rods (or different pin height pistons) as well. |
He mentioned crankshaft in the original post, which is why I mention that. |
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9.5isCanadian Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2017 Posts: 465 Location: In your blind spot.
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: Stock 2.1 WBX : Best way to increase the HP and the torque ? |
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syncro surf wrote: |
9.5isCanadian wrote: |
Unless you used to road race motorcycles. Banging gears between 8-12krpm is an ear orgasm in the making..... |
Oh yes ..... remember 2-strokes? |
Oh yeah..Not to high Jack..
But…
Raced a 92 TZr 250 that I imported from Japan. It was an all or nothing kind of relationship.
Speaking of increased hp.
I just order a 2.2 jug kit from Concept1
No replacement for displacement.
Owen _________________ 9 1/2 - missing a few pieces.
1987 Getaway Hightop
1980 Sunroof Vanagon
2018 BMW R Nine T
2012 Golf tdi |
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jberger Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003 Posts: 2476
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: Stock 2.1 WBX : Best way to increase the HP and the torque ? |
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9.5isCanadian wrote: |
syncro surf wrote: |
9.5isCanadian wrote: |
Unless you used to road race motorcycles. Banging gears between 8-12krpm is an ear orgasm in the making..... |
Oh yes ..... remember 2-strokes? |
Oh yeah..Not to high Jack..
But…
Raced a 92 TZr 250 that I imported from Japan. It was an all or nothing kind of relationship.
Speaking of increased hp.
I just order a 2.2 jug kit from Concept1
No replacement for displacement.
Owen |
Those sure look\read\sound like AA 95.5's... good for not quite 2.2L. Why in the world are they almost $500? Those are $200 kits that you need to weed through several sets to find 4 barrels that will be close to spec for round and taper. |
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loki475 Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2005 Posts: 225 Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:12 am Post subject: Re: Stock 2.1 WBX : Best way to increase the HP and the torque ? |
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4Gears4Tires wrote: |
danfromsyr wrote: |
maybe toss out some weight |
Hell yeah. That's why the tin top 7 passenger vans are the fastest. |
yes! i am fast. i swears it. also your name needs its own sticker👍 |
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DuncanS Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013 Posts: 4583 Location: New Hampshire
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Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:37 am Post subject: Re: Stock 2.1 WBX : Best way to increase the HP and the torque ? |
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More HP. Yes, there are times I wish I had a bit more power, but not often. This topic reminds me of boat owners wishing their boat was 10% bigger. They get one and then wish the new boat were 10% bigger and so on. But bigger boats cost more to store and maintain. The only time most boat owners will tell you they are happy with the size they have is when they have to sand and paint the bottom.
Going to all the work of an engine rebuild sounds to me a lot like sanding and painting the bottom. I had a 7 passenger tintop, actually they are six passenger and one driver cars. But now all the seats except for the driver's are gone as well as 70 pounds of steel out of the roof. With just me aboard and nothing else inside it weighs 3700 pounds and is mostly zippy enough for me.
Duncan |
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Steve M. Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013 Posts: 6832 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Stock 2.1 WBX : Best way to increase the HP and the torque ? |
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_________________ This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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