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MuzzcoVW
Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2018
Posts: 1474
Location: Westfield, MA.
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 Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:39 am Post subject: Current new cylinder heads |
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| I'm curious what the latest is on the new cylinder head availability. Does anyone have experience with the AA heads? My searches seemed to indicate problems with the newer AMC castings. Originally I was going to purchase a set from Len Hoffman, but it looks like the $1500 pair of heads is no longer available and I don't have over $4000 to spend on heads. Another option are my original heads. They have 38,000 miles (confirmed). Is there anyone reputable on the east coast who could check them and install new seats? Thanks |
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RalphWiggam
Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2018
Posts: 906
Location: SouthEast
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| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:53 am Post subject: Re: Current new cylinder heads |
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| Len gets his AMC castings by the pallet load. IMO wait on his. Call him. Its worth it. |
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MuzzcoVW
Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2018
Posts: 1474
Location: Westfield, MA.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:03 am Post subject: Re: Current new cylinder heads |
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| RalphWiggam wrote: |
| Len gets his AMC castings by the pallet load. IMO wait on his. Call him. Its worth it. |
Unless I wasn't seeing things right, he isn't using AMC anymore. I'll have to locate that post again later. And yes, I do plan on contacting him |
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heimlich 
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 6613
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:27 am Post subject: Re: Current new cylinder heads |
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What size heads are you looking for?
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50349
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| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: Current new cylinder heads |
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| There are two different engine types used on Bay Window Buses and several different heads used on each. It would be nice to know the specifics of your engine. |
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MuzzcoVW
Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2018
Posts: 1474
Location: Westfield, MA.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:28 am Post subject: Re: Current new cylinder heads |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| There are two different engine types used on Bay Window Buses and several different heads used on each. It would be nice to know the specifics of your engine. |
You're right...1977 GD 2.0 liter, still has fuel injection |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22668
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:49 am Post subject: Re: Current new cylinder heads |
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| MuzzcoVW wrote: |
| I'm curious what the latest is on the new cylinder head availability. Does anyone have experience with the AA heads? My searches seemed to indicate problems with the newer AMC castings. Originally I was going to purchase a set from Len Hoffman, but it looks like the $1500 pair of heads is no longer available and I don't have over $4000 to spend on heads. Another option are my original heads. They have 38,000 miles (confirmed). Is there anyone reputable on the east coast who could check them and install new seats? Thanks |
I’ll ask Dave Hunt in Schenectady if they do this. About 1+ hour west of view, but if you smile nicely I can do a pick/ drop on one of my runs through the Berkshires
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MuzzcoVW
Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2018
Posts: 1474
Location: Westfield, MA.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:12 am Post subject: Re: Current new cylinder heads |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| MuzzcoVW wrote: |
| I'm curious what the latest is on the new cylinder head availability. Does anyone have experience with the AA heads? My searches seemed to indicate problems with the newer AMC castings. Originally I was going to purchase a set from Len Hoffman, but it looks like the $1500 pair of heads is no longer available and I don't have over $4000 to spend on heads. Another option are my original heads. They have 38,000 miles (confirmed). Is there anyone reputable on the east coast who could check them and install new seats? Thanks |
I’ll ask Dave Hunt in Schenectady if they do this. About 1+ hour west of view, but if you smile nicely I can do a pick/ drop on one of my runs through the Berkshires |
Awesome, curious to hear if they do that. And thanks...I'll give you a smile...so long as I haven't just got off a phone call with a customer, or one of my out of stock supply houses haha |
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jtauxe
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 5780
Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Current new cylinder heads |
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Adrian Audirac of Headflow Masters in Vista California also uses AMC heads. He did some 1800-cc ones for me a few years back, and they are great.
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:19 am Post subject: Re: Current new cylinder heads |
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| How is it the newer AMC castings have problems? |
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Amskeptic
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 8568
Location: All Across The Country
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Current new cylinder heads |
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| Wasted youth wrote: |
| How is it the newer AMC castings have problems? |
The AMC castings don't have problems (like the first ones did with valve cover fit and too shiny of a valve cover gasket seating surface) so much as "features" that we have had to get used to, like the change in alloy that reduces cracks also brings us some settling-in issues that include terrifying loss of valve clearance until they stabilize.
I have installed three sets of Len Hoffman heads, one in NaranjaWesty, and two in customers' cars and happily paid the price for trust in the quality. I cannot vouch for the quality of the hardware in AMC heads off the shelf.
However, two of the three sets (characterized by heavy highway driving) lost significant valve clearances from 0 miles to about 10,000 miles. This required an accelerated valve adjustment schedule that looked like this:
* initial adjustment/run-in adjustment at 30 minutes/100 miles/ 500 miles/ 1,000 miles X 3/ 2000 miles X 2, and finally they stabilized at about 10,000 miles and could make it to the next usual 3,000 mile interval.
Len suggested that the softer aluminum was allowing a little "stretch" through the combustion chamber ceilings/port castings, taking away about .060" total clearance. Well, that translates to a full turn back of the adjusting screws in less than a year of driving which concerned me greatly. But, lo and behold, they stabilized and have been rock steady over the ensuing 40,000 miles on NaranjaWesty.
The softer aluminum really does require lower head temps. I used to be indifferent to 420* CHTs on the original VW heads for the previous 30 years, but the AMCs really prefer 400* or less for steady running, and they prefer that you only hit 420* for a few minutes at a time only.
The AMC heads do not shed heat as effectively as the original VW heads.
Colin
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: Current new cylinder heads |
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Best to call Len. He has different levels of head work. I worked in a shop that did heads for everything from fleet vehicles to F1 and Indy racing. Trust me when I say Len is the guy to buy heads from if you are going new. Roy at MoFoCo is doing type 4 stuff now too, but I can't tell you what goes into his rebuilt T4 heads. The issue with rebuilt heads is always what condition the cores are in. I sold a good used 2L set last year that the old RIMCO rebuilt, but those cores had low miles on them when they were rebuilt. Only if you can find some low mile 2L cores then they are worth rebuilding.. But not cores that have 150,000 miles on them, or have been rebuilt a couple times already.
| Quote: |
| The AMC heads do not shed heat as effectively as the original VW heads. |
or they make more power and that causes the heat to go up. I didn't see any temp changes on mine but I haven't pushed them long and hard yet.
Last edited by SGKent on Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: Current new cylinder heads |
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| Amskeptic wrote: |
| Wasted youth wrote: |
| How is it the newer AMC castings have problems? |
The AMC castings don't have problems (like the first ones did with valve cover fit and too shiny of a valve cover gasket seating surface) so much as "features" that we have had to get used to, like the change in alloy that reduces cracks also brings us some settling-in issues that include terrifying loss of valve clearance until they stabilize.
I have installed three sets of Len Hoffman heads, one in NaranjaWesty, and two in customers' cars and happily paid the price for trust in the quality. I cannot vouch for the quality of the hardware in AMC heads off the shelf.
However, two of the three sets (characterized by heavy highway driving) lost significant valve clearances from 0 miles to about 10,000 miles. This required an accelerated valve adjustment schedule that looked like this:
* initial adjustment/run-in adjustment at 30 minutes/100 miles/ 500 miles/ 1,000 miles X 3/ 2000 miles X 2, and finally they stabilized at about 10,000 miles and could make it to the next usual 3,000 mile interval.
Len suggested that the softer aluminum was allowing a little "stretch" through the combustion chamber ceilings/port castings, taking away about .060" total clearance. Well, that translates to a full turn back of the adjusting screws in less than a year of driving which concerned me greatly. But, lo and behold, they stabilized and have been rock steady over the ensuing 40,000 miles on NaranjaWesty.
The softer aluminum really does require lower head temps. I used to be indifferent to 420* CHTs on the original VW heads for the previous 30 years, but the AMCs really prefer 400* or less for steady running, and they prefer that you only hit 420* for a few minutes at a time only.
The AMC heads do not shed heat as effectively as the original VW heads.
Colin |
Hmmmm. Interesting!
The shedding heat thing....maybe just a different alloy. Maybe a porosity difference. I do not mean a bad porosity issue like voids in the metal....just a different density.
The breaking in and stabilizing...it sounds like an annealing issue and it could also affect some of the heat shedding. Ray |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22668
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:43 am Post subject: Re: Current new cylinder heads |
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Could you address the annealing issue with a series of runs in a household oven ?
10,000 miles is about 200 hours of operation, so maybe bringing it up to 450 in an oven for 50 hours them ramping it down?
I’m swagging those numbers from my a$$ kale.
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cmonSTART
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2014
Posts: 1915
Location: NH
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: Current new cylinder heads |
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Gut feeling with that is warpage might be an issue? Better to have them tightly clamped down to the sealing surfaces to break in.
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Amskeptic
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 8568
Location: All Across The Country
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Current new cylinder heads |
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| cmonSTART wrote: |
| Gut feeling with that is warpage might be an issue? Better to have them tightly clamped down to the sealing surfaces to break in. |
Yes, Len was not too concerned as he explained, in harrowing detail, how the combustion chamber ceilings/intake ports would "settle". He clearly trusts his valves/seats through this period, even telling me that a closed up valve clearance for a several miles of freeway driving was not really going to damage the valves or the seats
At 47,000 miles, we're holding 135/145/135/145 compression.
The other set of heads has about the same mileage as NaranjaWesty, and as far as I know, the engine is running fine all over the western US.
The third set is doing little local driving duty, but they had just come back from Alaska, so maybe they'll be going back to Alaska ... from Miami.
Colin
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