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WildIdea
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2016
Posts: 928
Location: Black Hills, South Dakota
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 Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:13 am Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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Little update on the engine. As I mentioned the 40hp engine that came along in the bus is getting set aside for now. I’m going to see about the condition of the case on another engine that I have on hand. It appears to be an early bay 1600 and the plan now is to rework it as a 1776.
I needed to get the 40hp kinda put back together so I don’t loose or intermix parts that belong to it. I got it built back up somewhat with just enough sheet metal screws to keep it stable for storage and pulled it aside. Cleaned up my tools and workspace and got to removing the externals on the 1600.
That happened late one night recently and I pressed on to remove the heads and cylinders before calling it. I’ve had it stripped and cleaned a few years ago so all the parts came right off.
The next morning I had the time and curiosity to keep going. I ran over to Brian’s to borrow a few tools. Flywheel lock, oil pump puller and case spreader. Stuff I realize I should have on hand.
We’re seeing this engine as having been rebuilt before, but not seeing anything of concern at this point. I pulled one case half and notice a munched center bearing. Something not good going on, a delamination of sorts.
I have quite a bit of case cleaning ahead for a proper inspection and some measuring has begun on the case and crank journals to see what I have. It’s looking good so far. I’ve never been this deep before and have a lot to learn so forgive me as the fog lifts. I’m not planning on documenting an engine build, but will post any milestones and turning points and try to keep my progress current.
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1977 Sage Green Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691987
1965 SWR Walk-Through Standard
1960 211 Panel American Camper Conversion |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7537
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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Getting caught back up on this build.
A pleasure to read as always.
Thanks for taking the time to document. Love the detail. 
If you have Brian_e in your corner, you have no need for worry.
These motors go together easily, and you'll soon be surprised that you're done already.
Building motors is my favorite part of a build.
Ended up with a couple at least for each car..
That 40-horse will be fun to do 100% OG stock one day,
To have for parades and such.. 
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Bus Motor Build
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Two Glove Boxes
Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2005
Posts: 838
Location: Texas
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WildIdea
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2016
Posts: 928
Location: Black Hills, South Dakota
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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| Clatter wrote: |
Getting caught back up on this build.
A pleasure to read as always.
Thanks for taking the time to document. Love the detail.
If you have Brian_e in your corner, you have no need for worry.
These motors go together easily, and you'll soon be surprised that you're done already.
Building motors is my favorite part of a build.
Ended up with a couple at least for each car..
That 40-horse will be fun to do 100% OG stock one day,
To have for parades and such.. |
Thanks clatter, I appreciate your input and encouragement! Anyone can take one of these apart, it’s building it back up that’s the hard part and I haven’t done that yet. I will fully apply myself and follow directions to the letter.
I’ve been through your linked engine build thread and learned a lot there. It merits a reread.
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1977 Sage Green Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691987
1965 SWR Walk-Through Standard
1960 211 Panel American Camper Conversion |
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BarryL 
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14258
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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| If you run your fingernail across a bearing saddle does your fingernail hang up on a ridge? |
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AKdude
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2016
Posts: 29
Location: The Far North
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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| Hi Wildidea, great learning opportunity. Case looks like it's worth sending to a machine shop to really check it out closely for cracks in the typical places, check tolerances, and shine up those crank journals, case savers,, etc,, she needs some attention. Cool to put back a period-specific motor back in your old bus, she's gonna sing when you get er all together. Looking forward to seeing her on the road. Great job, man. |
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WildIdea
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2016
Posts: 928
Location: Black Hills, South Dakota
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:20 pm Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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| BarryL wrote: |
| If you run your fingernail across a bearing saddle does your fingernail hang up on a ridge? |
You know, it does hang up a little BarryL.
Thanks for checking in GermanKrew and AKdude and others. I'm glad your in this with me, I'll need and appreciate the support and encouragement!
Where I'm at lately, I have the interest and momentum to get in the garage despite being busy all around. Everything else is getting inched forward, so why not this fun project?!
I had the case apart for the first time and the crank removed. Brian instructed me on getting the case halves back together and torqued, then looking for light to show up at the bore seams. I didn't get any light to show in the seams. Satisfied with that, I went on to cleaning up the case halves some more for cleaner handling and more in-depth inspection.
Pretty much have this cleaning thing down by now and cleaning the case on the engine stand really helped improve my posture while doing it. This case was way less impacted with tar cake than anything on the bus undercarriage. The crud melted away in a third the time and I cruised right through it one night. Still made a huge mess and took as long to clean the shop floor that it did the case. Oh well. I went for the inside of the case and realized I wasn't going to get my fingers in there very well. I saw lots of bits and chunks from the outside of the case that must have fallen into the openings when I removed the cylinders. I felt a power wash would be in order and Brian instructed me to remove a series of plugs from the case first. I knocked those out with my slide hammer another night that week.
The next morning I took the case halves to the car wash on my way to work and blasted them out with soap and hot water. I was careful not to hit them in a way that would flip them or anything. That did the trick on the bits of junk, but see I'll need to give some more attention to some key areas like the push rod and lifter holes....and...and.......simply the chunkiest and the first of many cleanings this case will see before getting sealed for keeps. The case is in line for some machining so will have the shavings from that to remove, etc.
My homework is done on these parts for now and they're ready for the nod from Brian to bring them over for an inspection and line bore. We'll move on that when he's ready and he won't be waiting on me or bring over something gross to work on. In the meantime I can get the crank and rods disassembled.
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Something interesting came my way today in the form of this neat matchbook. My buddy Ryan came over today to join us on our annual all air-cooled VW Hills run and gave me this matchbook he recently came across. I took him to the garage and showed him the partial dealer decal on the rear bumper from the camper bus (actually original paint that was protected by the decal). I've been kinda digging around for early local dealership history and this offers up a clue to the VW dealership in Rapid City where this bus was apparently sold. The archives here on the Samba offer up a May 1960 dealer plate from a place called Dries Motor Co. that sold VW on Sturgis road. This matchbook says Rushmore VW at the same address. With the bay window on the matchbook I'm seeing it went from Dries to Rushmore at some point. I can't really make out what my bumper decal says other than Volkswagen and Rapid City, SO. DAK. We don't abbreviate like that anymore, so it's likely pretty old. Anyway, I cherish the matchbook and it offers another clue and lead to follow. Thanks for looking!
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1977 Sage Green Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691987
1965 SWR Walk-Through Standard
1960 211 Panel American Camper Conversion |
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EverettB
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69809
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:29 pm Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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I'll add that Matchbook to the dealer listings on the site - nice find!
I see Rushmore VW listed in the 1970/1975 dealer books on the site so Yes, it must be later / Bay Window era.
I can't read your bumper either but I'd also guess it says Dries since that was the only dealer there at the time.
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DanM
Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2002
Posts: 1330
Location: Falls Church, VA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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| Very cool! I was the second owner of the 1960 so23 that belonged to that Dries VW paper temporary tag (last known in the UK). I searched for more info at the time but came up with nothing. I've tuned into this thread and thought about that bus... neat to see a connection! |
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WildIdea
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2016
Posts: 928
Location: Black Hills, South Dakota
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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| EverettB wrote: |
I'll add that Matchbook to the dealer listings on the site - nice find!
I see Rushmore VW listed in the 1970/1975 dealer books on the site so Yes, it must be later / Bay Window era.
I can't read your bumper either but I'd also guess it says Dries since that was the only dealer there at the time. |
Thank you! I keep learning more every day!
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1977 Sage Green Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691987
1965 SWR Walk-Through Standard
1960 211 Panel American Camper Conversion |
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WildIdea
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2016
Posts: 928
Location: Black Hills, South Dakota
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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| DanM wrote: |
| Very cool! I was the second owner of the 1960 so23 that belonged to that Dries VW paper temporary tag (last known in the UK). I searched for more info at the time but came up with nothing. I've tuned into this thread and thought about that bus... neat to see a connection! |
Thanks DanM, this just keeps getting more interesting. Check this out, Brian just forwarded an email correspondence from earlier this year with a fella that was around these places back then. I'm retyping it here with some edited names......
From Al B. to Brian.
As far as I remember, Dries Motors was always in the location of what became Rushmore Volkswagen. I bought a new 40hp case (with factory bearings!) up there in about late '69-early '70. Dwayne J. was the parts guy then and was still running parts department after they went out to Campbell Street. I think it may have been named Davis Motors after it was Dries. At least Earnie Davis owned the place and later his son Dave worked there too. After that it was Rushmore VW. I don't remember that they changed the name even when they were handling Yugos.
Old Erv's was always the local independent competition. It started out as A&R Imports in a shop on Jackson BLVD, run by Erv A. and Ned R. They did lots of British cars as well as the other Euro stuff. Later, after that partnership broke up - I think Ned R may have died, that building housed the Saab dealer. They must have kept some of the inventory; I got some brake parts for an MG Midget there in '71. Anyway, Erv opened his own place at 3333 Sturgis Road, called it Old Volks Home. In the late 60's/ early 70's he was also the BMW dealer. VW started to get protective about their corporate image and went after all the Old Volks Homes. I think there were seven places nationwide with the name, and maybe one didn't change the name. I started working for Erv in mid - 1975, stayed while Wolfgang F. - he had run his own shop WLD Auto and worked for Erv for a few years - owned the place (now Import Service), and I left in 1994, while Rocky owned it. Wolf put up the store on West Chicago. Doug A, Ervs eldest son and I built the Skunk in the winter and spring of '72. Burned a lot of midnight oil and screwed the taillights to it in the morning while it was the trailer to go to the first race.
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Brian said he just reached out to Al for some some history and that's what he offered up. I would say its pretty reliable. It's all before my time, being born around whenever he was racing the Skunk, and curious now as to what that was. Import Service is where I can join the convo as that's where myself and most of the other local Deadheads were getting our buses then. I got a few 500 dollar Bays there between 89-93. I had to have one and when something broke, the trade was 150 towards another 500 dollar rig instead of waiting on a costly repair. Always several to choose from. Looking back and knowing what I know now, I feel one simply needed a clutch adjustment and another maybe a valve cover gasket and other campfire stories.
Now I’m starting to think the decal on my bumper is from Rushmore VW as Dries goes by Motor Co and Rushmore uses Volkswagen. Probably simply got a service there at some point is all.
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1977 Sage Green Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691987
1965 SWR Walk-Through Standard
1960 211 Panel American Camper Conversion |
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Bendango
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2005
Posts: 593
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| Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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I had a strange feeling wandering through the forums…….hmmmmm what’s happening with my favorite Kombi?
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WANTED - [WTB] 55-62 Bus Thin Lip Package Tray SWR
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WildIdea
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2016
Posts: 928
Location: Black Hills, South Dakota
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2021 8:06 am Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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| Bendango wrote: |
| I had a strange feeling wandering through the forums…….hmmmmm what’s happening with my favorite Kombi? |
I've been wandering around here too! I guess its time for an update.
I've been trying my best to keep the many projects in my life moving forward and with this bus being one of my favorites, it's still getting its fair share of attention. In regards to the previous post, Brian sourced picture of the Skunk. Baby Skunk that is, either the bug that was spoken of or a follow up build, were not sure if its a satiracle nod to the Skunk, but I'll add it to this thread because its just supper cool an a touch of local history worth remembering and talking about.
Moving on, I've been wanting to get my '65 and my buddy Chad's '65 together for some side by side pics and a cruise. We are both impossibly busy with the work we've taken on, but we picked a date for an all air cooled VW fall cruise and wouldn't you know it, he showed up!! On comparing our M-plate codes, our buses were made 21 days apart and equip exactly the same. His was delivered to TX (forget the city) and mine to San Fran. He came upon his local in a long time storage situation and it's way more preserved than mine, which has had a bit tougher life. We're still in amazement at the pair and were overjoyed to be connected this way. Kinda neat for our town to have this matched set. It was a small group that day but we had perfect weather and great vibes all around. Fall is the best time around here for driving. Low heat, no bugs, less traffic, yellow leaves. I'll easily trade off garage time for cruising any day of the week.
Brian and I have been game planning and staging parts for my engine build for months now. You guys know Type e Brian well and more than a few of you are keeping him rather busy. I love watching him get buried with the excitement his workmanship is generating! He's a crusher and whole other animal and I don't want to be a pest about my stuff. We keep it fun and I follow his instructions to the letter. Here is where we are at.
I brought my cases over to his place the other night. He gave them the nod to proceed with them. We measured the journals to see what level of material is left and although this case was rebuilt before we see there is plenty of meat on them for another clean up. We did decide to reorder a different thrust bearing and waiting to have it in hand before we start shaving on the case. I learned a lot that night about thrust bearing and how the lone bore tools work. I treasure these valuable minutes at Brians shop, thanks man!
I was thinking with my chassis worked over I was basically set to focus on the engine and would be ready for it whenever it was ready to install it. Hahaha, how wrong that is! Of note, I recently sold the '61 Chrysler Imperial that is my TheSamba avatar. Was a long time in the making, but won't bother outlining the deal other than it is out of my storage unit which frees up some space I can use for bus activity. I was thinking I might actually take the camper cabinets out and start moving that along. Then it dawned on me that my front doors to the cab don't operate well, the fuse box needs attention, the fresh air vent needs attention, wiper motor surely needs help and my headlights to name a few! So lets get to this stuff while the engine project inches forward or goes on pause.
I started on the passenger side door panel that I can get to easiest in my shop. Wasn't to hard to get off, thanks to a quick search and a post from Clara that popped up, thank you. The mechanism screws slowed me down because my impact driver was at work. A little kroil and heat made all the difference and everything came off perfectly. Cleaning up all the mechanisms now. Oh how I love my ultrasonic cleaner.......hot water and deluded Simple Green. I realized my lever's return spring is broken so have some new coming for a swap out.
I reached out to a neighbor buddy Jay who is a stud body man about popping out this dent on the front door. Possible PDR. He's said thats beyond PDR and "who is this?" Haha, I gave him my name again and he said "Matt!!! It's tough to move that old metal, but I will come over" All good I said, I just wasn't going to start banging on it without having him look at it and advising me.
Thats about it for now! Life is busy but good. My VW's keep me sane and happy. Thanks!!!
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1977 Sage Green Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691987
1965 SWR Walk-Through Standard
1960 211 Panel American Camper Conversion |
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Bendango
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2005
Posts: 593
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2021 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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Ask and thou shalt receive huh? Thanks for the update. I am kinda jealous of the bus time as I cant get to mine at the moment. Looks like great fun!
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WANTED - [WTB] 55-62 Bus Thin Lip Package Tray SWR
Getting Used - SWR 60 westy copy built by vw ( apparently )
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=320866
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zimblewinder
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Joined: January 22, 2004
Posts: 893
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:00 am Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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| Quote: |
| I realized my lever's return spring is broken so have some new coming for a swap out. |
where does one find new lever return springs?
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WildIdea
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2016
Posts: 928
Location: Black Hills, South Dakota
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:50 am Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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| zimblewinder wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I realized my lever's return spring is broken so have some new coming for a swap out. |
where does one find new lever return springs? |
I reached out to Wolfsburg West. I should be seeing them shortly, email said they shipped. They have a lot of little bits like this on hand and I’m itching to see then. I can’t wait to put them in and mount the mechanisms. I will update, 
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1977 Sage Green Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691987
1965 SWR Walk-Through Standard
1960 211 Panel American Camper Conversion |
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ToolBox
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 3439
Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:15 am Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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| zimblewinder wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I realized my lever's return spring is broken so have some new coming for a swap out. |
where does one find new lever return springs? |
Many years ago I sourced mine from Gabe the key guy. |
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WildIdea
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2016
Posts: 928
Location: Black Hills, South Dakota
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:48 pm Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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Staying on the front door lever topic, I eventually got the return springs in hand and got the mechanisms all clean and put back together.
I had started on the passenger side because it was just more exposed in my garage. That's good because there are a few less things going on than the drivers side with the lock.
Basically, what I found was after I cleaned everything up and regreased the springs and sliding pieces in the housing block, I was just down to installing the new lever return spring in the handle. What worked for me was to stabilize the lever in my vice upside down, set all the parts in place with the pivot pin started and while I was pushing down on the spring I was able to tap the pin through the spring. I had to push down on the spring pretty hard but the pin kinda just found the center and ramped through the hole. It was really satisfying to install it and have a perfectly operating door handle.
I couldn't wait to get to the other side and once I had daylight to clear all the parts from below the bus, I was able to move that side of the bus away from the wall on its wheel dollies. Repeating all the lever and panel removal steps, made much easier this time with my (formerly left at work) impact driver and a touch of oil, this is what I had on my hands.
Into the ultrasonic cleaner and off to work to come home to clean mechanisms to tinker with. I was pleased to find that my ignition key worked for my locking lever, but found it impacted with crud. No problem, but I did find some stress damage inside the lever. 
As I was getting acquainted with these parts and how the key works, I was thinking of how to repair the stress crack in the lever. It wasn't crazy broken and after cleaned it up I tapped the flare back down, I tried to solder it closed. I wanted to use a silver bearing solder not just a wiring solder for strength. This wasn't working as I started to puddle the actual lever metal with my torch. As it heated up, it started bubbling and at first I thought was just some chrome plating checking out and then I realized it was metal melting, so I quickly stopped. Cleaned up again to get flux out of the crack, I then went to a touch of JB weld and worked that in the seam and let it cure a day before dressing it up with files. I'm thinking this will hold fine as I don't think it needed to even be done in the first place with it just tapped back down, but did it just in case. That and I don't think I will ever be reefing on the handle the way this was to put the crack in the first place. Back to the vise to place a new return spring and whammy, back in the door she goes.
I used a bit or TR-3 on the outer door metal before returning the mechanism. Again, pleased to have a second properly latching front door and move the chains ever so slightly. It was getting annoying working around the bus with these not working as dirty and dry as they were. Poking around the doors I realized there is so much more to do to get the seals, panels and felt channels replaced. I kinda can't wait and I'll take them on in the same fashion. Thanks for looking!
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1977 Sage Green Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691987
1965 SWR Walk-Through Standard
1960 211 Panel American Camper Conversion |
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WildIdea
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2016
Posts: 928
Location: Black Hills, South Dakota
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:30 am Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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Brian said he had the thrust bearing in hand and recently a night came up for us to take on the line bore job together. Of coarse Brian could have just done it himself, but neither of us wanted that. Instead, he took the time to do it with me and explain the process while answering my questions as we went.
I tried hard to simply watch and listen and keep my questions relevant. I mostly stayed out of his way and took pictures and ran the vacuum for shavings. It's pretty fun and interesting hanging with such a good friend and talking VW for a few hours. It went pretty smooth and I'll try my best to do a quick report.
Brian explained that the center cam journal has weaker case support and can warp, so the cam journal bore tool gets installed before the case halves get bolted together and torqued.
We then go for the rear thrust surface clean up. Brian said the centering device has little anchor points and can scratch a fresh bore surface, so this cut comes first and the main line bore tool will clear out any of those scratches. Brian takes off the minimum about if material here to clean up the surface and says he plans to trim the inner thrust bearing lip on a lathe to fit the thickness perfectly. Remember, I'm new at this, but this is pretty cool to see. We're committed now, no turning back till were done. The cam journal gets cut and that bore tool hangs out until the end, but a little preview of what's to come.
The main line bore tool comes out and Brian is measuring all kinds of things. This cut will happen in two stages and there are lots of things to consider each time. The first rough cut followed by a finer final cutting. Cutting edge length set and bore tool inserted in case.
This tool has a lot more to set up before it is used. There are front and rear centering devices that are complicated. I wont try to explain, other than the rear has a threaded guide that pulls the cutter through as it turns and his drill has an adjustable trigger speed set for consistent rotation. If you haven't seen this done, its pretty cool watching the case get cut. I guess these little circle shavings are what you want to see.
Another round of case bore measuring and the line bore cutters get adjusted using a more reactive measuring device. Cut and done, time to pick up the tools. It was 11:30 pm before I left Brians!! Two hour job turned into a 4 with me in the room. 
All nice and shinny now
Brian comments below:
I always do a rough cut, then adjust the cutters for a final cut. This is the only way I can hit my .0020" crush fit dead on, with each of the EXACT bearings that will be going in the engine. The OD of the bearings are rarely consistent, and tossing in a preset cutter could mean way to much crush, or none at all.
The center cam journal on this one also took quite a bit to get back to size.
I can't say enough how appreciative I am of Brian’s time and mentoring. Simply put, I'm grateful to the core and more than excited to see this happening to us and this bus. Shop time is the best and with friends even better! My interest in this bus is compounding.
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1977 Sage Green Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691987
1965 SWR Walk-Through Standard
1960 211 Panel American Camper Conversion |
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Bendango
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2005
Posts: 593
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Room for one more? WildIdea's 1960 camper bus |
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Thanks for documenting the process and sharing some knowledge gained.
_________________
I want a real garage.
WANTED - [WTB] 55-62 Bus Thin Lip Package Tray SWR
Getting Used - SWR 60 westy copy built by vw ( apparently )
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=320866
| Braukuche wrote: |
| Where did you find the elephant dick? |
Last edited by Bendango on Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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