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onslowb
Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2006
Posts: 315
Location: Woodland Hills
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 Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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I'd like to get added to the list please.
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1987 Weekender 2.4GW manual
1970 Vw Bug SP 1600 |
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6829
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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So I managed to get back for Thanksgiving and sine the Syncro was running fairly good before I left and giving me 19mpg I decided to drive it 100 miles to my Sister's place to stuff my face.
Filled up with gad, set the ofo and gps speedomter and drove 93 miles to the next fillup to see how much it used.
Ouch...11 mpg! okay I was doing 70-75 mph.
The Android display gave me the devils ink on the IDC%
I brought it up to 100% to see what rpm it would be at. 4300rpm.
Now below 4000rpm the IDC became a nice angelic blue. 3700rpm
So I'm wondering if I have a vacuum leak at high rpm or something else is causing injectors to pump longer? Not experiencing any telltale backfiring when coming off the throttle from 4200 rpm.
Any thoughts on this?
I'm headed back now and I will keep it under 4000rpm to see if I can see the 19mpg again.
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DigiMatrix
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010
Posts: 449
Location: Up North Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:34 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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The injector duty cycle equation is this:
IDC(%) =x* [IPW (ms) * RPM]/1200
Where x = 1, 2 or 4
1 = sequential (1 time per combustion cycle)
2 = batch (2 times per combustion cycle)
4 = TBI (4 times per combustion cycle)
But.. Digi = batch = 2, so
IDC(%) = 2*[IPW (ms) * RPM]/1200
IDC(%) = 2*[13.584 * 4332.8]/1200 = 98.1% (so the displayed value is correct)
I looked at one of my logs from the summer. Closest I could find
AFM volts = 3.46
RPM = 4039.9
IPW = 11.936
IDC% = 80.37
Highest IPW that I saw at 3701.9 RPM was 13.76 => IDC% = 84.9. This was at an AFM voltage of 3.538 so under load.
The closest I could find to your lower RPM is:
AFM volts = 2.776
RPM = 3701.9
IPW = 6.864
IDC% = 42.35
So I don't think your numbers are out to lunch.
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'91 Syncro Westfalia
soon to be 2.5 liter stroker WBX 10:1 comp
Digifant ECU with knock sensor and custom
cylinder selective knock control by me |
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6829
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:56 am Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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| DigiMatrix wrote: |
IDC(%) = 2*[13.584 * 4332.8]/1200 = 98.1% (so the displayed value is correct)
I looked at one of my logs from the summer. Closest I could find
So I don't think your numbers are out to lunch. |
Thank you for your great explanation. I could not find an equivalent explanation when I Googled for it. This is exactly what I was looking for.
I was watching the numbers as I drove back keeping it just at 4000rpm and it was the steady blue.
When I did go ahead and press the accelerator at this rpm to increase speed it immediately turned red so I started thinking it is acting like one of those green/red fuel economy gauges displaying the vacuum of the intake when you are pulling a lower vacuum accelerating and the needle swings over to poor mileage.
I pulled into a rest stop so no figures on the mpg, but since the roads are quiet now at 4am I should be able to keep a steady rpm all the way and get a good mpg.
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This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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DigiMatrix
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010
Posts: 449
Location: Up North Canada
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:10 am Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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If I remember correctly, I made the value go red to indicate the injectors are close to going static (wide open). It is generally thought that when wide open they don't control fuel quantity very accurately.
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_________________
'91 Syncro Westfalia
soon to be 2.5 liter stroker WBX 10:1 comp
Digifant ECU with knock sensor and custom
cylinder selective knock control by me |
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6829
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:06 am Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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| DigiMatrix wrote: |
| If I remember correctly, I made the value go red to indicate the injectors are close to going static (wide open). It is generally thought that when wide open they don't control fuel quantity very accurately. |
Okay that is interesting.
On the return trip I kept it at 4000rpm on the tach, but the Emulator was saying it was betwee 3750 & 3850+ -.
And it still was only 11mpg.
Since I got 19mpg on the trip before this one I am going to do the Digifant diagnostics again hopefully the condition that is causing the mpg has stayed active and not gone back to being intermittent because I was not seeing any problems in the diagnostics before.
Maybe it will show up now.🤞
The App has gone back to saying it is unlicensed again...sigh!
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This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them.
Last edited by Steve M. on Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jimihd
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2014
Posts: 8
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:41 am Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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Please add me to the list if the door is not closed !
Hard to imagine you do all these things alone and have to deal with fire and flood, god bless you ! |
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DigiMatrix
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010
Posts: 449
Location: Up North Canada
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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SteveM, BTW the ALDLdroid adx file has temperatures for ECT and IAT in either deg C or deg F. You just have to select the one you want - they are both there in the one adx file. For TunerPro, you have to select the correct adx file - one file for deg F and the other for deg C
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_________________
'91 Syncro Westfalia
soon to be 2.5 liter stroker WBX 10:1 comp
Digifant ECU with knock sensor and custom
cylinder selective knock control by me |
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6829
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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| DigiMatrix wrote: |
| SteveM, BTW the ALDLdroid adx file has temperatures for ECT and IAT in either deg C or deg F. You just have to select the one you want - they are both there in the one adx file. For TunerPro, you have to select the correct adx file - one file for deg F and the other for deg C |
Yep, it's not a problem for me really. I can work in either one. 
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There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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Vana Guy
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2016
Posts: 212
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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| Steve M. wrote: |
On the return trip I kept it at 4000rpm on the tach, but the Emulator was saying it was betwee 3750 & 3850+ -.
And it still was only 11mpg.
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Could it be you are travelling against a cold head wind and mostly up hill, as opposed to travelling mostly downhill with a warm wind to the back? |
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jberger
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 2476
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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| Steve M. wrote: |
| DigiMatrix wrote: |
IDC(%) = 2*[13.584 * 4332.8]/1200 = 98.1% (so the displayed value is correct)
I looked at one of my logs from the summer. Closest I could find
So I don't think your numbers are out to lunch. |
Thank you for your great explanation. I could not find an equivalent explanation when I Googled for it. This is exactly what I was looking for.
I was watching the numbers as I drove back keeping it just at 4000rpm and it was the steady blue.
When I did go ahead and press the accelerator at this rpm to increase speed it immediately turned red so I started thinking it is acting like one of those green/red fuel economy gauges displaying the vacuum of the intake when you are pulling a lower vacuum accelerating and the needle swings over to poor mileage.
I pulled into a rest stop so no figures on the mpg, but since the roads are quiet now at 4am I should be able to keep a steady rpm all the way and get a good mpg. |
Not meaning to hijack the thread but are you running a vacuum guage? I find that my engine runs at low vac\high load at anything over 1/8th throttle or so. Also with a lumpy cam 12-14 InHg at idle.
J |
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6829
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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| jberger wrote: |
| Steve M. wrote: |
| DigiMatrix wrote: |
IDC(%) = 2*[13.584 * 4332.8]/1200 = 98.1% (so the displayed value is correct)
I looked at one of my logs from the summer. Closest I could find
So I don't think your numbers are out to lunch. |
Thank you for your great explanation. I could not find an equivalent explanation when I Googled for it. This is exactly what I was looking for.
I was watching the numbers as I drove back keeping it just at 4000rpm and it was the steady blue.
When I did go ahead and press the accelerator at this rpm to increase speed it immediately turned red so I started thinking it is acting like one of those green/red fuel economy gauges displaying the vacuum of the intake when you are pulling a lower vacuum accelerating and the needle swings over to poor mileage.
I pulled into a rest stop so no figures on the mpg, but since the roads are quiet now at 4am I should be able to keep a steady rpm all the way and get a good mpg. |
Not meaning to hijack the thread but are you running a vacuum guage? I find that my engine runs at low vac\high load at anything over 1/8th throttle or so. Also with a lumpy cam 12-14 InHg at idle.
J |
No I'm not using a vacuum gauge. I was just thinking about the similarities in showing fuel economy.
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This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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jberger
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 2476
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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| Steve M. wrote: |
| jberger wrote: |
| Steve M. wrote: |
| DigiMatrix wrote: |
IDC(%) = 2*[13.584 * 4332.8]/1200 = 98.1% (so the displayed value is correct)
I looked at one of my logs from the summer. Closest I could find
So I don't think your numbers are out to lunch. |
Thank you for your great explanation. I could not find an equivalent explanation when I Googled for it. This is exactly what I was looking for.
I was watching the numbers as I drove back keeping it just at 4000rpm and it was the steady blue.
When I did go ahead and press the accelerator at this rpm to increase speed it immediately turned red so I started thinking it is acting like one of those green/red fuel economy gauges displaying the vacuum of the intake when you are pulling a lower vacuum accelerating and the needle swings over to poor mileage.
I pulled into a rest stop so no figures on the mpg, but since the roads are quiet now at 4am I should be able to keep a steady rpm all the way and get a good mpg. |
Not meaning to hijack the thread but are you running a vacuum guage? I find that my engine runs at low vac\high load at anything over 1/8th throttle or so. Also with a lumpy cam 12-14 InHg at idle.
J |
No I'm not using a vacuum gauge. I was just thinking about the similarities in showing fuel economy. |
I agree! Always liked the BMW "mileage" vacuum gauge.. Just wonder about our engines running basically flat out ALL the time vs a 3.0 straight 6 in a small sedan. Our economy vacuum is around 10-8 inHg, or at least in my case.
J |
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DigiMatrix
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010
Posts: 449
Location: Up North Canada
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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| Steve M. wrote: |
Okay so mine is installed and running on my android phone.
I tried to get it working on my Samsung Tablet S6 Lite and it was a no go.
It's a tablet fault and not the ALDLdroid or Emulator problem. It will just not see the ALDLdroid when looking in the internal storage folder to add the ADX files to the folder. Argh!
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Another had this issue today so we worked through it. It will work, just download a free file manager application from the google play store. It will be able to see the folders so you can add the adx file.
_________________
_________________
'91 Syncro Westfalia
soon to be 2.5 liter stroker WBX 10:1 comp
Digifant ECU with knock sensor and custom
cylinder selective knock control by me |
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DigiMatrix
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010
Posts: 449
Location: Up North Canada
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:14 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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An update on the second run. After tomorrow I will have only 4 more that need the 24 hour burn in. I will also be testing the ones already burned in on my Van over the next 2 days. I am hoping to get them ready to ship, so as soon as our town gets the mail service going again after the evacuation due to major flooding, I will be able to ship. I am trying to get these to you ASAP but mother nature has got in the way for the second time this year.
I am also waiting for the PCB's for the 3rd run - stuck in the mail somewhere because of this:
"A red service alert for Merritt, B.C. means that we are suspending delivery and not sending our delivery agents out, as conditions resulting from flooding have made it unsafe. Delivery will resume once it is deemed safe to do so"
_________________
_________________
'91 Syncro Westfalia
soon to be 2.5 liter stroker WBX 10:1 comp
Digifant ECU with knock sensor and custom
cylinder selective knock control by me |
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6829
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:51 am Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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| Vana Guy wrote: |
| Steve M. wrote: |
On the return trip I kept it at 4000rpm on the tach, but the Emulator was saying it was betwee 3750 & 3850+ -.
And it still was only 11mpg.
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Could it be you are travelling against a cold head wind and mostly up hill, as opposed to travelling mostly downhill with a warm wind to the back? |
Nope! Basically same flat highway! Even with the varience of wind and hills that would not account for 11mpg.
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This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6829
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:13 am Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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| DigiMatrix wrote: |
| Steve M. wrote: |
Okay so mine is installed and running on my android phone.
I tried to get it working on my Samsung Tablet S6 Lite and it was a no go.
It's a tablet fault and not the ALDLdroid or Emulator problem. It will just not see the ALDLdroid when looking in the internal storage folder to add the ADX files to the folder. Argh!
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Another had this issue today so we worked through it. It will work, just download a free file manager application from the google play store. It will be able to see the folders so you can add the adx file. |
Thanks for this info.
I tried half a dozen APP's and only found one that worked and saw the Android/Data folder and copy the com.sgiroux.aldldroid to it.
The APP is "Cx File Explorer".
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This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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mikemtnbike
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2015
Posts: 2795
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:43 am Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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will this work on a 3G era android phone on wifi?
Just considering the resources I have.
I know samba doesn't do this, but you get "forum member of the year" IMO digimatrix, this is all really cool and deeply appreciate how community minded you are being.
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1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled  https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual |
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DigiMatrix
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010
Posts: 449
Location: Up North Canada
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:44 am Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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| mikemtnbike wrote: |
will this work on a 3G era android phone on wifi?
Just considering the resources I have.
I know samba doesn't do this, but you get "forum member of the year" IMO digimatrix, this is all really cool and deeply appreciate how community minded you are being. |
Thank you for the kind words. Unfortunately I am not an expert on ALDLdroid. You can have a look here:
aldldroid.com/faq
Or, contact the creator of ALDLdroid via email. He is very responsive.
The Emulator is only set up for a bluetooth connection, but it probably could use a direct USB connection if your phone supports it. That is more work and not as convenient.
_________________
_________________
'91 Syncro Westfalia
soon to be 2.5 liter stroker WBX 10:1 comp
Digifant ECU with knock sensor and custom
cylinder selective knock control by me |
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DigiMatrix
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010
Posts: 449
Location: Up North Canada
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: WBX Emulator - real time data, onboard diagnostics and tuning |
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Had some fun last night and today. I modified my old Digifant fuel calculator to work with the Vanagon D file.
It helps me adjust fuel tables by performing the same calculations as the ECU. I can convert the fuel tables to injector pulse width and then adjust them and convert back to the new fuel table values.
Here is the Injector Pulse width 3d graph from the resulting calculations of injector pulse width. I can change ECT, IAT and voltage as well and see the changes. I don't calculate accel enrichment and WOT enrichment
I wrote an assembler program using the Chip code to double check my results.
_________________
_________________
'91 Syncro Westfalia
soon to be 2.5 liter stroker WBX 10:1 comp
Digifant ECU with knock sensor and custom
cylinder selective knock control by me |
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