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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:33 am Post subject: Re: Sealing rings at top/bottom of cylinders |
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plug reading is a lost art form. The main reason is that the chemicals used in gasoline today do not color like they did years ago. Gotta be able to see the electrodes and tips in sunlight to get a good idea, and need a magnifying glass to look for subtleties. Those photos really don't help. Take them again in sunlight of the tips and electrodes up close and post again. That said, an air to fuel meter will do more for you than tip reading. Tip reading in its day was looking to guess what the A/F ratio was. Now you can know exactly what it is. FWIW, and most don't know this but we used to start rich and lean until the glue in the plug started to bubble out - that was the perfect mixture*. One also looked for signs of over heating. Main thing on a VW you want to look for is carbon in the threads. If you have carbon in the threads it means that gasses are leaking out around the plug, and soon it will bind in the head coming out. Watch for it carefully especially on any plugs with CHT senders under the plug.
*VW air cooled engines are detuned so don't lean until the glue bubbles. That is for a water cooled racing engine. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Alan Brase Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004 Posts: 4532 Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Sealing rings at top/bottom of cylinders |
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SGKent wrote: |
plug reading is a lost art form. The main reason is that the chemicals used in gasoline today do not color like they did years ago. Gotta be able to see the electrodes and tips in sunlight to get a good idea, and need a magnifying glass to look for subtleties. Those photos really don't help. Take them again in sunlight of the tips and electrodes up close and post again. That said, an air to fuel meter will do more for you than tip reading. Tip reading in its day was looking to guess what the A/F ratio was. Now you can know exactly what it is. FWIW, and most don't know this but we used to start rich and lean until the glue in the plug started to bubble out - that was the perfect mixture*. One also looked for signs of over heating. Main thing on a VW you want to look for is carbon in the threads. If you have carbon in the threads it means that gasses are leaking out around the plug, and soon it will bind in the head coming out. Watch for it carefully especially on any plugs with CHT senders under the plug.
*VW air cooled engines are detuned so don't lean until the glue bubbles. That is for a water cooled racing engine. |
Yes, what SGKent said, and:
A generation ago, when reading plugs for mixture, the regimen was to use NEW plugs, go out do a high speed blast down the road or dyno, shut it off under load, roll off the road and pull the plugs. That way what you saw on the insulator was ONLY the snapshot of the high load and not the mid speed and idling situation. Not easy on a 4 cam Porsche. My friend's hands had battle scars from changing plugs on a hot motor!
WRT those pictured: the insulators are good color; there seems to be lot of build up along the body. Is it pre-lube residue? Oil residue? Overall, not bad. _________________ Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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RalphWiggam Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2018 Posts: 906 Location: SouthEast
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: Sealing rings at top/bottom of cylinders |
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I think the buildup is probably from the quick seat powder and oil burning before my rings were able to seat. I think the rings are pretty well seated at this point. I've got about 700 miles on it now. I'm hoping when I check the current set, the buildup will be gone.
The oil leaks are pretty much totally gone at this point. It might leave MAYBE a drop or two on the ground after a highway run. |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: Sealing rings at top/bottom of cylinders |
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RalphWiggam wrote: |
I think the buildup is probably from the quick seat powder and oil burning before my rings were able to seat. I think the rings are pretty well seated at this point. I've got about 700 miles on it now. I'm hoping when I check the current set, the buildup will be gone.
The oil leaks are pretty much totally gone at this point. It might leave MAYBE a drop or two on the ground after a highway run. |
you've done a good job. My new Mahle rings didn't completely seat until about 2000 miles which as I recall was normal for a car back in the days these buses were made, exception being moly rings which had to ride on a mirror finish so they seated out of the box.
Run an air to fuel meter on it if you haven't already. Look for about 13.1 to 13.3 at freeway speeds. That will come in at 14.7 at the 25 and 35 as spec'd for smog. WOT will drop way down into the mid 12's. You'll get a cooler engine, not waste fuel, and get good power. The 1979 will run 14.7 all the time which is hotter and why VW went to the flanged exhaust ports. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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RalphWiggam Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2018 Posts: 906 Location: SouthEast
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Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: Sealing rings at top/bottom of cylinders |
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Just thought I'd update the thread with some new pics. I've got 1200 miles on the rebuild and everything is still running great. I spent some time syncing the carbs a few weekends ago.
Inside
Got the front pedestals stripped and repainted and installed new pedestal mats. Also put new cushions from sewfine in both front seats.
Got the overriders painted with rattle cans from ww. All original paint except the nose.
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RalphWiggam Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2018 Posts: 906 Location: SouthEast
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: Sealing rings at top/bottom of cylinders |
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A small data update. Did a cold compression test a week or so ago.
I'm satisfied with the results. I would've maybe liked to see a little bit higher, but all of them being so close in the 130psi range is fine with me.
Syncd the carbs again and set the timing to 29. For some reason it had floated down to 25-26. Maybe I bumped the distributor or something awhile back. |
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orwell84 Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2007 Posts: 2536 Location: Plattsburgh, New York
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: Sealing rings at top/bottom of cylinders |
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Those compression numbers look excellent. From what I've picked up, compression test numbers can be all over the place and are most meaningful relative to one another or when all are low as with a worn engine. I'm sure someone will be along with a more thorough explanation.
I'm glad your build turned out so well. I learned a lot from reading about your build and appreciate that you shared the details. It really helps a lot. |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21512 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:08 pm Post subject: Re: Sealing rings at top/bottom of cylinders |
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RalphWiggam wrote: |
A small data update. Did a cold compression test a week or so ago.
I'm satisfied with the results. I would've maybe liked to see a little bit higher, but all of them being so close in the 130psi range is fine with me.
Syncd the carbs again and set the timing to 29. For some reason it had floated down to 25-26. Maybe I bumped the distributor or something awhile back. |
Very nice!
That little difference can be as simple as a small difference in chamber volume to a slight difference in valve margin....to the sealing of the o-ring on the compression gauge,
I bet if you had run it 3 times in a row...one of those numbers would have swapped around. Ray |
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RalphWiggam Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2018 Posts: 906 Location: SouthEast
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Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: Sealing rings at top/bottom of cylinders |
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Update....
Got about 4k miles on the rebuild now including 3 awesome camping trips in North georgia. Plenty of long slow grades up and down. Some downshifting to 3rd was required but the bus was super loaded down with camping gear.
Today it was 88F and we did about 135 miles back home. Oil temps were very solid right at the 215-218 range. Oil pressure was always at least 10psi per 1000rpm. I feel like my sweet spot is about 3700rpm on the highway. I don't really use the speedometer.
Anyway those oil temps are about 25F less than they were right after the rebuild. And the bus was loaded down pulling long hills for 3 weekends in a row.
Thanks again for the help from those around here. This place is a great resource. |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21512 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: Sealing rings at top/bottom of cylinders |
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RalphWiggam wrote: |
Update....
Got about 4k miles on the rebuild now including 3 awesome camping trips in North georgia. Plenty of long slow grades up and down. Some downshifting to 3rd was required but the bus was super loaded down with camping gear.
Today it was 88F and we did about 135 miles back home. Oil temps were very solid right at the 215-218 range. Oil pressure was always at least 10psi per 1000rpm. I feel like my sweet spot is about 3700rpm on the highway. I don't really use the speedometer.
Anyway those oil temps are about 25F less than they were right after the rebuild. And the bus was loaded down pulling long hills for 3 weekends in a row.
Thanks again for the help from those around here. This place is a great resource. |
Loved your "Bones" notepad! I have dropped some serious cash on some serious steak and wine in that place in the past....thank God it was not my cash!
Ray |
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RalphWiggam Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2018 Posts: 906 Location: SouthEast
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Posted: Mon May 25, 2020 5:57 am Post subject: Re: Sealing rings at top/bottom of cylinders |
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I forgot to add...for the last 500 or so miles I've been running the dipstick to the full mark in addition to another 1/2 quart or so. I've seen no issues so far and will continue to do that.
Also....no measureable amount of oil loss at all since the break in period. |
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RalphWiggam Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2018 Posts: 906 Location: SouthEast
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:09 am Post subject: Re: Sealing rings at top/bottom of cylinders |
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Still chugging away with zero issues to report. Climbing mountains fully loaded, miles and miles of gravel backroads to take the kids camping....Pushing the 1.7L hard. Depending on the ambient temps, I usually cruise flat highways at 65-70mph. Oil temps steady at 205-215. Thanks again for the help back when I was building the engine.
Last weekends adventure:
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bigbore Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2003 Posts: 3297 Location: Wasilla Alaska
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:40 am Post subject: Re: Sealing rings at top/bottom of cylinders |
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looks nice down there at least theres no snow like here. _________________ where its cold and snowy |
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RalphWiggam Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2018 Posts: 906 Location: SouthEast
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Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:12 am Post subject: Re: Sealing rings at top/bottom of cylinders |
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Went out to a small local car show this morning.
Somebody there with a beetle didnt like me pointing out to keep an eye on the plastic fuel filter he had installed *after* the fuel pump with no fuel clamps in the engine compartment of his beetle.
Just said I dont want to see it burn and do what you want. Oh well. |
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