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Shonandb
Samba Member
Joined: January 12, 2019
Posts: 1178
Location: Vancouver, BC
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 Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Annie-other Subaru Swap - Build Thread |
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| hometurbine wrote: |
Jeff,
Tangent related to conversion-->Two quick questions for conversion crowd:
1) Busaru engine support bar. I have a '75 bus, VW 091 transmission, KEP adapter plate ~5/8 inch thick, EJ25. This seems to be a pretty common set-up. However when I install the engine cross-member support bar, it overlaps the vertical stiffening brackets (I think earlier buses don't have those as wide). Even if I twist the bar aft, it doesn't seem to clear them. Is my position wrong (not sure how)? Oh, and I have new OEM mounts. Anyone have better pictures for comparison?
2) Evaporation line: What are others doing with this? Are you using the Subaru charcoal canister or other?
Bill |
I also used the crossmember from Busaru but didn't notice any mounting issues. I'll take a pic tonight as I can't remember exactly how it looks.
Regarding the evap line, I initially T'd into the original VW canister connecting the vent lines from the fuel tank to an inlet on the engine side of the air filter but constantly smelled fumes as the charcoal canister was not sealed.
I eliminated the canister and ran the lines directly to the inside of the air filter (towards the throttle body). I haven't noticed any fumes since.
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76 Westy with a 2.5L Subaru SOHC + Vanagon (010) Automatic Transaxle
Build & Trip Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=758760
Previous 1973 Panel Bus:
Click to view image |
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hometurbine
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2014
Posts: 157
Location: Cincinnati
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: Annie-other Subaru Swap - Build Thread |
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Thanks guys,
Jeff sorry for the hijack.
Support Bar. I would appreciate the pictures. So let me preface this by saying that at this point I suspect the bar is fine and I'm having fit-up issues.
When I first put the bar on, if fits nicely on passenger side pad, but has maybe 1/4 inch gap on drivers side (partially due to flange hitting frame). It closes as I install the nut, but it doesn't just fit nicely on both. Then there is ~3/8" gap on passenger side flange.
I tried fitting it up even taking the mounting pads out and it fits a little better, but still not quite right.
From everyone I hear, it fits on nicely when you install it. So what is my issue? I don't know how many degrees of freedom I have to play with. Is engine off left/right? Could the engine rotation be a little off? Not sure how much these can be adjusted.
Some better pictures.
This is difficult without physically seeing setup, but I think my options are:
1) Force in place (It would likely bend the support bar end-flanges)
2) Return and see if next bar is better (they are made in gigs and not likely different. Initial measurement of flange spacing matches requirement).
3) Bolt 1 side; cut off other side and re-weld in place to get rid of gap (drastic)
4) Check and see if engine is centered?
I appreciate thoughts.
_________________
Bill
'75 Westy Bus with Subaru EJ25 engine
GE CT58-100 helicopter gas turbine
Tiernay TT10 APU gas turbine |
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deathman68
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2005
Posts: 339
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:09 am Post subject: Re: Annie-other Subaru Swap - Build Thread |
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No worries about the hijack. Assuming the weld to the crossbar is solid with good penetration, I wouldn't sweat 3/8" and pull it closed using the bolt/nut. Maybe I missed it, but did you try Busaroo to see what their assembly tolerances are?
I'm sure that the material engineers will chime in and say that you'll probably still be within the elastic deformation range of the plate, meaning that the weld will constantly be in a high tension condition which *could* lead to weld cracking down the road. If you're worried about it, you could always heat the part and bend it (ie. deform it plastically) to take up the gap. Otherwise, and I know that this isn't aligned to your or my build mantra, but you could put in a spacer and call it done. IMO, engine centering isn't absolutely critical (within reason) since the CV's will compensation for any minor angular changes provided we're not talking about inches off-center.
Keep us posted...
_________________
1973 Riviera “Annie”
Build Thread: 1973 Riviera+Subaru 2.5+5 Speed
EJ25+5 Speed Conversion Part/Cost Tracker |
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Shonandb
Samba Member
Joined: January 12, 2019
Posts: 1178
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:55 pm Post subject: Re: Annie-other Subaru Swap - Build Thread |
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Here are some pics from mine. I noticed that your Busaru Crossmember is slightly different than mine as mine is a few years old and your plates on your Bus look to reach much farther down than mine on my 76. Did someone add support or extra welds on yours? My crossmember sits lower too. Basically the engine aligns with the transaxle bolts and the mount at the nose cone and the Busaru crossmember just takes some of the weight.
_________________
*******************************
76 Westy with a 2.5L Subaru SOHC + Vanagon (010) Automatic Transaxle
Build & Trip Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=758760
Previous 1973 Panel Bus:
Click to view image |
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deathman68
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2005
Posts: 339
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Annie-other Subaru Swap - Build Thread |
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Not much progress to report of late since all my free time has been devoted to getting my house up for sale to facilitate our impending move. Good news is that we sold in only four days so I've had a little time to start prepping the bus for its shipment up the road. Got the passenger side slider window rebuilt finally...pulled it nearly six months ago. The guys from Peninsula Glass wanted nearly $500 to send me the parts...fortunately there are a lot of camper window parts suppliers out there which made for a quick and cheap rebuild. The pics below are before I fully seated all the seals:
Now for a question to fellow Rivi owners: the aluminum slider frame has notches cut out on one side only and I assume that these are for drainage purposes. See below pic:
Can anyone confirm if these slots should be at the bottom of the window per my assumption? If so, it means that the PO installed both my sliders upside down. Anybody got pics?
_________________
1973 Riviera “Annie”
Build Thread: 1973 Riviera+Subaru 2.5+5 Speed
EJ25+5 Speed Conversion Part/Cost Tracker |
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badstuw
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2011
Posts: 36
Location: San Diego CA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: Annie-other Subaru Swap - Build Thread |
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| hometurbine wrote: |
Thanks guys,
Jeff sorry for the hijack.
Support Bar. I would appreciate the pictures. So let me preface this by saying that at this point I suspect the bar is fine and I'm having fit-up issues.
When I first put the bar on, if fits nicely on passenger side pad, but has maybe 1/4 inch gap on drivers side (partially due to flange hitting frame). It closes as I install the nut, but it doesn't just fit nicely on both. Then there is ~3/8" gap on passenger side flange.
I tried fitting it up even taking the mounting pads out and it fits a little better, but still not quite right.
From everyone I hear, it fits on nicely when you install it. So what is my issue? I don't know how many degrees of freedom I have to play with. Is engine off left/right? Could the engine rotation be a little off? Not sure how much these can be adjusted.
Some better pictures.
This is difficult without physically seeing setup, but I think my options are:
1) Force in place (It would likely bend the support bar end-flanges)
2) Return and see if next bar is better (they are made in gigs and not likely different. Initial measurement of flange spacing matches requirement).
3) Bolt 1 side; cut off other side and re-weld in place to get rid of gap (drastic)
4) Check and see if engine is centered?
I appreciate thoughts. |
Don't mean to double hijack, but I had this same issue with the Busaru cross member, almost to the exact specs as you posted, to the "T". I triple-checked the engine alignment, tried tweaking the engine mounts, never moved the trans mount, etc. but it was gapped on that same side and was just over the weld seam. Needless to say, I marked and drilled as it sat, bolted up and have been running near a year without issues. Must be the mock-up of the busaru cross member fabrication that is missing the small tolerance. |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16863
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:49 pm Post subject: Re: Annie-other Subaru Swap - Build Thread |
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people have in the past asked me to make these bars and this is the reason i don't. i get them 99% of the way built and weld the end plates on while the mount is in the bus.
that is a huge flaw and for what these bars cost i'd be pissed. i had made a spare bar once and thought i could "cheat" on a build and just install it. nope... it was off by a tiny bit.
problem is these busses are worked, jumped, driven thru the woods and God only knows what in their 40+ years on the road. to assume every frame rail is the same this stage in the game is a gamble.
i wish i could use a 'off the shelf' bar, but they all interfere with my cooling pipes and i'd rather not mess with them
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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hometurbine
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2014
Posts: 157
Location: Cincinnati
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:02 am Post subject: Re: Annie-other Subaru Swap - Build Thread |
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1) Yes, in the end I ended up cutting off the end with the larger cap, tacking it in place, then welding it off the bus and re-powder coating it.
2) Skills,
I was going to ask about the Air Assist Inector valve (see pics). I thought I read in a separate post that with Jeff's harness, that will be disabled. So should I just bypass the solenoid valve?
Thanks
_________________
Bill
'75 Westy Bus with Subaru EJ25 engine
GE CT58-100 helicopter gas turbine
Tiernay TT10 APU gas turbine |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16863
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Annie-other Subaru Swap - Build Thread |
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| hometurbine wrote: |
2) Skills,
I was going to ask about the Air Assist Inector valve (see pics). I thought I read in a separate post that with Jeff's harness, that will be disabled. So should I just bypass the solenoid valve?
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NO. it is NOT disabled, or shouldn't be. it's part of the warm up function and works in conjunction with the IACV. i would leave it alone.
if you want to clean it you can take it apart. iirc the body is a 19mm hex and you can open it up. be careful, parts jump out at you
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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hometurbine
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2014
Posts: 157
Location: Cincinnati
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:58 am Post subject: Re: Annie-other Subaru Swap - Build Thread |
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Thanks Skills,
I mentioned the wrong valve. I was thinking of the purge valve connected to the charcoal canister (discussion mentioned in link below)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=608519&highlight=subaru+vapor
Right now I don't have a solenoid set-up and am running it full open like the original VW engine.
My canister is an AC Delco 215-153 with a tank connection and purge connection. I have the "tank" coming from the stock VW evaporative system connected to the tank and the "purge" going to the 3rd rail on the fuel manifold. Does that sound right?
Thanks
_________________
Bill
'75 Westy Bus with Subaru EJ25 engine
GE CT58-100 helicopter gas turbine
Tiernay TT10 APU gas turbine |
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deathman68
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2005
Posts: 339
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Annie-other Subaru Swap - Build Thread |
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It's been a minute since my last post. Our move from FL to GA has slowed down progress significantly, but the time for change is upon us!
Hoping to have more meaningful updates once I get the new garage setup in March, but here's a preview of what's to come:
1. Change from belly-mount to in-bay radiator setup. I've had MANY convos with the gurus and am convinced that the in-bay setup can be made to work almost as well as the belly-mount. As a leap of faith (and to push myself), I'm selling my nearly complete conversion. If anyone is in the midst of a Subaru swap and wants a deal, DM me for details or check the classifieds.
2. Paint! In spite of my trials and tribulations with the paint to get it to a level that I would deem camping worthy, my loving wife has ok'd a complete color change.  I will probably get the bus running in order to make all the final body mods/holes and then start completely tearing it down (again) to take it to bare metal (again) and paint it the right way. No more "hey man, I like your RED bus"...
_________________
1973 Riviera “Annie”
Build Thread: 1973 Riviera+Subaru 2.5+5 Speed
EJ25+5 Speed Conversion Part/Cost Tracker |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16863
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:33 am Post subject: Re: Annie-other Subaru Swap - Build Thread |
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i'd keep it until you work out the bugs.
anyone running a in bay setup that isn't running in the 195-205* range under load in the summer is flirting with disaster.
funny, every single person i have asked with an in bay radiator has 100% refused to tell me their running temps. every one of them.
this isn't a buick , SBC or a BBC they don't live long at 220*
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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deathman68
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2005
Posts: 339
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: Annie-other Subaru Swap - Build Thread |
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Yep, aligned as usual Skills. Logic would dictate to hold onto the setup until I get the in-bay radiator dialed in; that said, I'm lighting a fire under my own ass by selling it and also helping to finance the procurement of the new parts.
Just got off the phone with another victim of the Busaru swap who's interested in going belly mount.
I'll be going the NACA scoop route ala Scirocco_Crazy's bus build. His last bus currently resides in Dubai and the new owner reports operating temps within the normal range. The proof will be in the pudding, but I will throw whatever it takes at it to get it where I want it...hopefully without turning the engine compartment into swiss cheese in the process
_________________
1973 Riviera “Annie”
Build Thread: 1973 Riviera+Subaru 2.5+5 Speed
EJ25+5 Speed Conversion Part/Cost Tracker |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16863
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: Annie-other Subaru Swap - Build Thread |
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if you're ok with body mods, thats fine
my data tells me....and i personally lived it...that at speed...20-30mph my engine bay pressurized even with all the factory sealing missing.
i tried to make my own "sled tins" etc and it just didn't matter.
i'm not saying it can't be done, i'm just not willing to butcher a bus to find out.
if ever given the chance, i have 1 idea i'd like to try for an in bay setup. that said, i have had zero issue with the belly mount going on almost 10 years and 15+ swaps. even the guy i did one for with a bagged bus hasn't killed it yet.
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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hometurbine
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2014
Posts: 157
Location: Cincinnati
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: Annie-other Subaru Swap - Build Thread |
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Deathman68,
Whaaaaat? We went from "competing" on who would finish first to completely changing it up? Did you hit your head during the move? 
Actually, I appreciate all your help and your willingness to do further experimentation to advance the conversion options....but getting rid of your backup plan....you're definitely braver than me.
In the meantime I'll hopefully enjoy breaking in my new engine and worry about things like heat/defrost....maybe even AC someday...
Good luck...looking forward to updates...
_________________
Bill
'75 Westy Bus with Subaru EJ25 engine
GE CT58-100 helicopter gas turbine
Tiernay TT10 APU gas turbine |
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deathman68
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2005
Posts: 339
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:56 am Post subject: Re: Annie-other Subaru Swap - Build Thread |
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| Quote: |
| you're definitely braver than me. |
Fine line between brave and stupid Bill. I’ve had several months to step away from my project and to circle back on why I undertook the project to begin with. It wasn’t just to build a reliable bus that can take my family everywhere, but to build something unique and to truly challenge my skills…what better way than to try something most say can’t be done?
If I have to eat crow and go belly mount in the end so be it, but at least I’ll have some fun along the way.
_________________
1973 Riviera “Annie”
Build Thread: 1973 Riviera+Subaru 2.5+5 Speed
EJ25+5 Speed Conversion Part/Cost Tracker |
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Vee Dub Nut
Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2004
Posts: 1184
Location: Dallas, GA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:57 am Post subject: Re: Annie-other Subaru Swap - Build Thread |
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Looking forward to seeing the progress Jeff! Give me a shout if you need a hand (since we're neighbors and all now )
_________________
Fightin' Texas Aggie Class of 2006
67 Beetle (TBD)
74 Transporter (EJ25 Swapped) - Build Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
See all my VW pics on Instagram @ vee_dub_nut |
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deathman68
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2005
Posts: 339
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: Annie-other Subaru Swap - Build Thread |
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It’s been a minute since my last post. Thanks to the ridiculous housing market we spent five months living in temporary housing while waiting to move into our new home. The move is complete and the bus is in the garage!
We were incredibly fortunate to have life-long family friends let us stay in their house and store the bus in their shop during these last few months:
Thanks to hagerty got the bus towed for free to the new place. One of my first projects will be raising the garage door header by a foot:
With the bus in place I set about organizing my garage. Scored some industrial look cabinets and lockers from a cosmetics shop that just opened last summer and was going under.
Next up after organizing the garage was organizing the to do list before I ship the bus off for a color change in a couple months:
No lack of projects to complete before paint and body. The heart was courtesy of my little helper.
Next up was decluttering the bus interior and taking a breather to enjoy the results:
Planning on burning some midnight oil these next few weeks to start knocking out the to do list. More updates to follow. Good to be back!
_________________
1973 Riviera “Annie”
Build Thread: 1973 Riviera+Subaru 2.5+5 Speed
EJ25+5 Speed Conversion Part/Cost Tracker |
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Vee Dub Nut
Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2004
Posts: 1184
Location: Dallas, GA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Annie-other Subaru Swap - Build Thread |
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Shop is looking great! Looking forward to seeing progress resume! Give me a shout if you need a hand.
_________________
Fightin' Texas Aggie Class of 2006
67 Beetle (TBD)
74 Transporter (EJ25 Swapped) - Build Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
See all my VW pics on Instagram @ vee_dub_nut |
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deathman68
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2005
Posts: 339
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Annie-other Subaru Swap - Build Thread |
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| Quote: |
| Shop is looking great! Looking forward to seeing progress resume! Give me a shout if you need a hand. |
Thanks! I will definitely let you know. Should be an interesting few days with the cooling system redesign in full swing.
_________________
1973 Riviera “Annie”
Build Thread: 1973 Riviera+Subaru 2.5+5 Speed
EJ25+5 Speed Conversion Part/Cost Tracker |
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