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Chuck67
Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2006
Posts: 101
Location: SoCal
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 Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild vs Buying New Engine Cost |
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I am rebuilding a 1915 that has less than 6,000 miles on it.
I had the engine built with all new parts back in 2005 for a cost of over $4,000
It ran great however a few things bothered me. It leaked oil and several valves would 'chatter' and come 'loose'. so out it came
Now mind you I had a 'reputable' builder build this and somehow they really dropped the ball and screwed many things up
There were 3 brands of lifters and 5 different lengths of pushrods in the motor.
So here we are cost wise
Case work - $475 check case, add 2 shuffle pins, repair and sleeve lifter bores, deck oil reliefs, deck cylinder bore
Rebuild heads - $300
Regrind crank - $95
Resurface flywheel - $100
Rebuild rods - $125
New cam and lifters - $180
Main bearings - $50
Rod bearings - $21
Cam bearings - $13
Hone Cylinders - $40
New rings - $38
New Daiken clutch $48
New 1700 lb pressure plate $125
Balance all $225
New gaskets - $27
New pushrod tubes - $30
New Manton pushrods - $86
Geometry set up - $205
Misc tools - $500 engine stand, new torque wrench, deck height tool, oil pump puller, case splitter, sealants, ring compressor, etc
Set end play - $50
I'm sure there is more I left off.
These things aint cheap!!Peace of mind as I'm doing the assembly and helping with most this time around is priceless.
Do it right or don't do it at all. |
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gt1953
Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002
Posts: 13848
Location: White Mountains Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild vs Buying New Engine Cost |
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What i use for ring compressor is 4 inch pipe clamp. Works great. Chuck67 looks like a nice motor.
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Paul Jr
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2018
Posts: 458
Location: PA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild vs Buying New Engine Cost |
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It adds up real quickly!
I ordered parts for a 1914 rebuild yesterday, including new heads and a cam/ lifters along with some miscilaenous parts and was close to 2000.
Add machine work, bearings and anything else needed + labor. I just don’t see how you can make money doing rebuilds for as cheep as I see some claim. |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76911
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild vs Buying New Engine Cost |
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| Paul Jr wrote: |
| I just don’t see how you can make money doing rebuilds for as cheep as I see some claim. |
Cheap parts, pay the workers little and bang them out fast.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12714
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:05 am Post subject: Re: Rebuild vs Buying New Engine Cost |
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| Chuck67 wrote: |
I am rebuilding a 1915 that has less than 6,000 miles on it.
I had the engine built with all new parts back in 2005 for a cost of over $4,000
It ran great however a few things bothered me. It leaked oil and several valves would 'chatter' and come 'loose'. so out it came
Now mind you I had a 'reputable' builder build this and somehow they really dropped the ball and screwed many things up
There were 3 brands of lifters and 5 different lengths of pushrods in the motor.
So here we are cost wise
Case work - $475 check case, add 2 shuffle pins, repair and sleeve lifter bores, deck oil reliefs, deck cylinder bore
Rebuild heads - $300
Regrind crank - $95
Resurface flywheel - $100
Rebuild rods - $125
New cam and lifters - $180
Main bearings - $50
Rod bearings - $21
Cam bearings - $13
Hone Cylinders - $40
New rings - $38
New Daiken clutch $48
New 1700 lb pressure plate $125
Balance all $225
New gaskets - $27
New pushrod tubes - $30
New Manton pushrods - $86
Geometry set up - $205
Misc tools - $500 engine stand, new torque wrench, deck height tool, oil pump puller, case splitter, sealants, ring compressor, etc
Set end play - $50
I'm sure there is more I left off.
These things aint cheap!!Peace of mind as I'm doing the assembly and helping with most this time around is priceless.
Do it right or don't do it at all. |
If this engine actually need all this work after 6000 miles there is no way on God's green earth you used a "reputable" builder! He was a HACK of the highest order!
Or... I suppose... you abused that engine very badly...
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Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:27 am Post subject: Re: Rebuild vs Buying New Engine Cost |
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Between a decent "entry level" pair of quality heads (Superstock 37x32) from Performance workshop (Steve/Greg Tims), and case machine work (full flow, linebore, skim deck surfaces) alone I was over $1000 into my 1776 rebuild. Look at adding around ~175$ for piston/cylinder kit, ~100$ for bearings, ~160-200$ for a decent cam with gear and lifters, ~60$ oil pump, full flow filter adapter/fittings, (~75-100$) it all very quickly adds up!
I'm easily into the build over 2000$, and I already had the case, OEM rods, DPR counterweighted OEM crank, DPR lightened OEMflywheel, and reused the pushrod tubes, tin, exhaust, carbs, fuel pump, distributor, etc. But, this is with me only buying new parts where needed, spicing up the carbs I had with new intakes, filter housings, and venturis, and cleaning up/measuring/reusing as much quality OEM parts as possible. However, I now have a well put together engine than is strong, smooth, and great for my application and driving style.
I couldn't be happier with how it turned out, and if I would have bought it from a builder I don't feel I could have gotten the same quality or care put into it for the amount of money I put in. There are just to many hours to make it cost effective when people need to put food on the table. I was able to take my time and even if I took longer than anticipated, I don't think I would change the experience at all, even if I have rebuilt a dozen or so total engines, this is the first one I ever put this much thought into and have learned a lot up until now, and continue to each day.
Cheap/Fast/Reliable- pick two. I happily picked Fast/Reliable, and put in the sweat and cash to make it work  Feels good being able to pull all the way to 6000 RPM with an engine you built yourself without being afraid of the mystery internals another guy may have put in 
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Zundfolge1432
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12467
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:29 am Post subject: Re: Rebuild vs Buying New Engine Cost |
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| Costarico wrote: |
So, first post please excuse my ignorance and lack of research....
I have acquired a 1970 Bug to rebuild, and want just a general ballpark of the cost to rebuild an engine vs purchasing a rebuilt.
And, who is the go to supplier of rebuilt engines - basically stock setup?
Assume rebuild costs don't include labor, just parts and pieces and typical machining needs.
Thx in advance. |
I’ve watched this expand into multiple pages but here’s my opinion 😀
The absolute cheapest way is to buy a good used engine, yes they are out there. Option two buy 2 or 3 core engines complete to get all the small parts and accessories and hardware. This supposes that you have the time, place, knowledge and tools and desire.
Mr. Cusser’s testimonial is closer to reality in money spent. To the extreme we built one a few years ago and reused almost everything except bearing and seals. We did use new P/C and exhaust valves. The engine had failed the previous owner because they used the wrong fuel pump push rod but point being you can find hidden gems and opportunities buying cores.
Buying short blocks or long is another alternative but you pay for that. The biggest waste of money would be turnkey engine, unless money isn’t the prime objective. So in a nutshell the more you can do yourself and by using parts which are within specs the cheaper the cost. Good luck. |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31362
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:37 am Post subject: Re: Rebuild vs Buying New Engine Cost |
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| gt1953 wrote: |
| What i use for ring compressor is 4 inch pipe clamp. Works great. |
I bought a ring compressor for 83 to 85.5mm pistons back in 2016, was about $8 for a band-type where one used a pliers or vise-grip to compress the rings.
Back in 1976 I bought a ratchet-type ring compressor and band for my 1835cc engine (92mm pistons). I last used that in 1986, and nowadays I cannot find either the ratchet part or the 92mm part (can't remember, think the band part is missing); but I still am pi$$ed about misplacing that !!! I know that in 2016-2017 when I resurrected my 1970 VW that I did NOT locate both parts.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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vwinnovator
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005
Posts: 1555
Location: Still doing it in the back of your VW
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:09 am Post subject: Re: Rebuild vs Buying New Engine Cost |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| Paul Jr wrote: |
| I just don’t see how you can make money doing rebuilds for as cheep as I see some claim. |
Cheap parts, pay the workers little and bang them out fast. |
Add to that the backyard assemblers with no shop overhead, the ones that slap together out of the box parts, and the ones with full time other jobs that are doing "favors" for neighbors and friends...
If someone with no knowledge hears "I'll build it for $1000" from someone who has a bunch of vw stuff around their garage, they will most likely jump all over that...
Can't tell ya how many time ppl have brought their " freshly built engine" to me asking me to "check it out and tune it" because they just can't seem to get it to run right.
I pass on all those |
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Paul Jr
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2018
Posts: 458
Location: PA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:53 am Post subject: Re: Rebuild vs Buying New Engine Cost |
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| vwinnovator wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
| Paul Jr wrote: |
| I just don’t see how you can make money doing rebuilds for as cheep as I see some claim. |
Cheap parts, pay the workers little and bang them out fast. |
Add to that the backyard assemblers with no shop overhead, the ones that slap together out of the box parts, and the ones with full time other jobs that are doing "favors" for neighbors and friends...
If someone with no knowledge hears "I'll build it for $1000" from someone who has a bunch of vw stuff around their garage, they will most likely jump all over that...
Can't tell ya how many time ppl have brought their " freshly built engine" to me asking me to "check it out and tune it" because they just can't seem to get it to run right.
I pass on all those |
I am seeing the problem from the other side, as people come here with problems that were built by the guy with a shop and overhead, charged an arm and a leg and the money spent does not equal out, rods threw the top of the block, cast flywheel on a screaming 2275 along with the cheapest of the cheep parts throughout. Others with big price tags and a 1641 built with worn out second hand parts on not much more than the cost of the oil in it just smokes thier professionally built 1914 that if it cost one dollar more they might have had to refinance thier house to pay for it.
Then there is those who should never even attempt an engine build and really have no buisness owning any tools. Crushed bearings, rods left loose, cam botlts hitting the oil pump, studs stripped out and fixed with all thread from tractor supply, one head with 40 x35 valves and the other stock, piston pin retainers not installed. What’s sad is some of these things came from shops not just the home builder.
So go ahead hate on any one group you want but as I see it it’s not a matter of the home builder or a shop but rather the person’s integrity and thier true worth in the world! |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild vs Buying New Engine Cost |
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This thread makes one long for the days of JC Whitney  |
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