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Phydous Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2016 Posts: 71
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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:06 pm Post subject: Electric Fuel Pump Question |
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This afternoon I was driving my '69 baja and the engine sputtered/coughed then stopped. I tried starting it again, and it will turn over, but won't actually start. I'm pretty sure (99%) that it's the fuel pump that went out because it has been very noisy to the point that I was thinking about replacing it anyway. Now it just just makes a low buzzzz. When I turn on my key the fuel pressure gauge (on my fuel line) now shows zero when it normally shows 3 lbs.
This is a pump that was on a donor car that I moved to my baja when I swapped engines. Holley 12-801-1
It's been super loud and annoying ever since I installed it.
I'm wondering if anyone has recommendations for a replacement that would be less noisy, and more reliable.
Any/all comments and suggestions appreciated! Thank you! |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76891 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pump Question |
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If you have it mounted with rubber isolators it will be quieter. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51118 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pump Question |
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I see a fuel pump pad on your engine, why not install a mechanical pump? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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KAmes Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014 Posts: 876 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:10 pm Post subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pump Question |
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I bought one of those, it quickly made it's way to the trash. There is no excuse for it to be so ridiculously loud, especially being name brand. The Carter rotary pump that cip1 and other VW vendors sell is quiet and reasonably priced. I've been using mine for several years now.
https://www2.cip1.com/c26-127-205/ |
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Phydous Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2016 Posts: 71
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pump Question |
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Thanks for the responses. I did some additional reading and research, and supposedly the Holly Blue fuel pump was supposed to be less noisy than the Red. So I went ahead and ordered the Blue version and got it installed.
The car started right up after I finished the installation, so I'm pretty sure the ori pump was indeed bad.
I put added a heavy rubber isolator between the attachment bracket and the pan. It seemed maybe a little quieter, but then again I only got to drive for about 15 min before the next issue popped up.
My next "adventure"...
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9759293#9759293 |
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Phydous Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2016 Posts: 71
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:30 pm Post subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pump Question |
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KAmes wrote: |
I bought one of those, it quickly made it's way to the trash. There is no excuse for it to be so ridiculously loud, especially being name brand. The Carter rotary pump that cip1 and other VW vendors sell is quiet and reasonably priced. I've been using mine for several years now.
https://www2.cip1.com/c26-127-205/ |
Thank you. Unfortunately for me I had already ordered the Holley Blue when I saw your post... If the Carter is more quiet than the Holley Blue, the Carter for sure will be my next pump. |
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gorbur Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2010 Posts: 187 Location: West of Calgary
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Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:32 am Post subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pump Question |
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Cant speak for the Holley's on noise or reliability but for others looking for quiet and reliable the Pro Performance "electronic" pumps are great. Ultra quiet, low current draw, and reliable. Summit, JEGS all carry it or the equivalent (even from Holley). Easily supplies 2 x HPMX 40's on a mild 1776. Skipping the regulator etc.
I had a rotary Carter prior. Crazy noisy even being double isolated. I trust Carters so probably good on reliability. Just the noise of the rotary's in general is too much.
_________________ 73 - Ghia Cabriolet, currently under resto
76 - Type1, 1776, full restomod |
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beetlenut Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2009 Posts: 2983 Location: RI
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Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:28 am Post subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pump Question |
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You should run your filter before the pump. _________________ scrapyards are for quitters
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Wetstuff wrote: |
... I spend more time shaking it than directing it?! I get a pretty decent blast for 8sec. then have to shake it again. |
- Words to live by right there!
My 74 Super rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6507104#6507104 |
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gorbur Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2010 Posts: 187 Location: West of Calgary
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Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pump Question |
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Agreed. The filter is before the pump. A bit hard to tell in the photos but its a hard 90 below the filter on the inlet side. On the Carter pic the braided line that looks like the output is actually a return from the regulator (since abandoned). Good point to bring up though. _________________ 73 - Ghia Cabriolet, currently under resto
76 - Type1, 1776, full restomod |
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beetlenut Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2009 Posts: 2983 Location: RI
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Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pump Question |
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gorbur wrote: |
Agreed. The filter is before the pump. A bit hard to tell in the photos but its a hard 90 below the filter on the inlet side. On the Carter pic the braided line that looks like the output is actually a return from the regulator (since abandoned). Good point to bring up though. |
I was talking about the OP and his new set up
_________________ scrapyards are for quitters
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Wetstuff wrote: |
... I spend more time shaking it than directing it?! I get a pretty decent blast for 8sec. then have to shake it again. |
- Words to live by right there!
My 74 Super rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6507104#6507104 |
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mondshine Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006 Posts: 2769 Location: The World's Motor Capital
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:15 am Post subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pump Question |
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Just to throw some gas on the fire...
First, I think the forward bulkhead is the worst possible mounting location for an electric fuel pump. That panel acts like the soundboard on a piano; multiplying the pump noise.
For my '73 Thing, I use the Fram HPG 1 filter. This is a canister type, so 99% of the debris settles in the bottom of the canister; keeping the filter element clean for years.
The filter housing is mounted to the top tube of the front beam with two American style muffler clamps; basically 2" U-bolts.
I use a Carter P90091 pump; mounted in a similar manner to the lower tube of the front beam. A 5/16-18 threaded rubber vibration isolator is screwed directly onto the U-bolt, and the furnished band clamp is attached to the isolator.
The Carter P90091 has a 3/8" inlet barb, and a 5/16" outlet barb. A brass adapter connects (alcohol safe) 5/16" fuel hose to 5mm hose to the tunnel.
The Carter P90091 is said to output 2-4 PSI. Mine outputs 4.5 PSI.
I reduce this to 2.5 PSI with a Malpassi "Petrol King" (deadhead) regulator in the engine compartment.
The filter and pump can be easily serviced or replaced without lifting the car, removing a wheel, etc.
A small sheet pf 1/4" ABS plastic is mounted to the beam with 2" cushioned "P-clips", M6 coupling nuts and screws; as protection from stray rocks, etc.
Sketch:
If I haven't bored you enough yet, here is the original write-up:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=757944
Good luck, Mondshine |
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gorbur Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2010 Posts: 187 Location: West of Calgary
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:34 am Post subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pump Question |
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beetlenut wrote: |
gorbur wrote: |
Agreed. The filter is before the pump. A bit hard to tell in the photos but its a hard 90 below the filter on the inlet side. On the Carter pic the braided line that looks like the output is actually a return from the regulator (since abandoned). Good point to bring up though. |
I was talking about the OP and his new set up
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My apologies. Misuse of the "reply" button on my part. _________________ 73 - Ghia Cabriolet, currently under resto
76 - Type1, 1776, full restomod |
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Phydous Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2016 Posts: 71
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pump Question |
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mondshine wrote: |
Just to throw some gas on the fire...
First, I think the forward bulkhead is the worst possible mounting location for an electric fuel pump. That panel acts like the soundboard on a piano; multiplying the pump noise.
For my '73 Thing, I use the Fram HPG 1 filter. This is a canister type, so 99% of the debris settles in the bottom of the canister; keeping the filter element clean for years.
The filter housing is mounted to the top tube of the front beam with two American style muffler clamps; basically 2" U-bolts.
I use a Carter P90091 pump; mounted in a similar manner to the lower tube of the front beam. A 5/16-18 threaded rubber vibration isolator is screwed directly onto the U-bolt, and the furnished band clamp is attached to the isolator.
The Carter P90091 has a 3/8" inlet barb, and a 5/16" outlet barb. A brass adapter connects (alcohol safe) 5/16" fuel hose to 5mm hose to the tunnel.
The Carter P90091 is said to output 2-4 PSI. Mine outputs 4.5 PSI.
I reduce this to 2.5 PSI with a Malpassi "Petrol King" (deadhead) regulator in the engine compartment.
The filter and pump can be easily serviced or replaced without lifting the car, removing a wheel, etc.
A small sheet pf 1/4" ABS plastic is mounted to the beam with 2" cushioned "P-clips", M6 coupling nuts and screws; as protection from stray rocks, etc.
Sketch:
If I haven't bored you enough yet, here is the original write-up:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=757944
Good luck, Mondshine |
This is a very cool setup. I am thinking about modifying like this when I move my filter...
Awesome. |
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Dan the workingstiff Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2006 Posts: 824 Location: Downriver, MI
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Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:16 am Post subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pump Question |
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Some nice work guys.
Mondshine, why the "T" fitting after your filter?
Additional filter downstream, also?
edit---bn4=heater _________________ '69 Beetle
'66 FG buggy
My other air-cooled's
'76 IH 1200
'75 IH 1200 |
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Frizbal Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2016 Posts: 129
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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2023 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pump Question |
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mondshine wrote: |
Just to throw some gas on the fire...
First, I think the forward bulkhead is the worst possible mounting location for an electric fuel pump. That panel acts like the soundboard on a piano; multiplying the pump noise.
For my '73 Thing, I use the Fram HPG 1 filter. This is a canister type, so 99% of the debris settles in the bottom of the canister; keeping the filter element clean for years.
The filter housing is mounted to the top tube of the front beam with two American style muffler clamps; basically 2" U-bolts.
I use a Carter P90091 pump; mounted in a similar manner to the lower tube of the front beam. A 5/16-18 threaded rubber vibration isolator is screwed directly onto the U-bolt, and the furnished band clamp is attached to the isolator.
The Carter P90091 has a 3/8" inlet barb, and a 5/16" outlet barb. A brass adapter connects (alcohol safe) 5/16" fuel hose to 5mm hose to the tunnel.
The Carter P90091 is said to output 2-4 PSI. Mine outputs 4.5 PSI.
I reduce this to 2.5 PSI with a Malpassi "Petrol King" (deadhead) regulator in the engine compartment.
The filter and pump can be easily serviced or replaced without lifting the car, removing a wheel, etc.
A small sheet pf 1/4" ABS plastic is mounted to the beam with 2" cushioned "P-clips", M6 coupling nuts and screws; as protection from stray rocks, etc.
Sketch:
If I haven't bored you enough yet, here is the original write-up:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=757944
Good luck, Mondshine |
Where did you get the 5/16” to 5mm adaptor for the fuel line? |
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mondshine Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006 Posts: 2769 Location: The World's Motor Capital
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Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2023 5:03 am Post subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pump Question |
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Quote: |
Where did you get the 5/16” to 5mm adaptor for the fuel line? |
Probably Amazon, (because it's easy) but a good hardware store would have this. https://www.amazon.com/Beduan-Reducing-Fitting-Red...6&th=1
I think I turned ~1mm off the diameter of the small end. |
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Frizbal Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2016 Posts: 129
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Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2023 5:21 am Post subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pump Question |
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That’s exactly what I bought, but thought you may have found a metric to imperial conversion. Did you do the same thing on the inlet to get from the tank outlet to the 3/8” inlet? |
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mondshine Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006 Posts: 2769 Location: The World's Motor Capital
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Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2023 5:34 am Post subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pump Question |
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My fuel tank came from my old Thing which had CIS Fuel Injection.
It has JIC bungs welded in place. The "return" JIC bung is capped.
So the fuel hose from the tank to the filter inlet is 1/2" JIC.
The fuel hose from the filter outlet to the pump inlet is 3/8".
The fuel hose from the pump outlet is 5/16", (reduced to 5mm) where it runs to the pipe in the tunnel to the back of the car. |
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PeoplesCarYOUTUBE Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2021 Posts: 13
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Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2023 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pump Question |
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For stock applications I've been using HUGO electric pumps. They are relatively quiet (compared to the high performance one I run). Also are low pressure so ideal for Dells etc that don't like more than 3psi etc.
Not sure if you can get them over there but are sold by dellorto.co.uk here. Good Luck 😊👍 _________________ www.youtube.com/PeoplesCar
VW related videos, useful tools, DIY guides and local show footage. |
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