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Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed
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kreemoweet
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed Reply with quote

surfbus23 wrote:
Jacked the front up and took off the tire this morning. Found the break caliper looking like this.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This looks to be problematic with it rubbing against the rotor. It looks the same on the backside. Or not. I don't remember what it's supposed to be like. Looks like maybe this is correct.


Woah! That not right. Pad wear surface on disk should go almost out to the outer edge, within 1/8" or so. Wrong pads?
Pad retaining pins came out?
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surfbus23
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:15 am    Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed Reply with quote

Bad news for me. It wasn't the speedometer cable. Anyone able to listen to that audio and give me guidance?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed Reply with quote

I thought I posted to this thread. The noise in turning points to a bad front wheel bearing. The noise of a bad bearing gets loudest when you turn away from it , forcing the bearing into the outer race, not definitive but 95% indicative
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed Reply with quote

Thanks so much to everyone who put in time to help me. I figured it out this afternoon. The key was thinking of the noise as a screeching sound rather than a metal contact.

Turns out my tie rod had come loose and my alignment was messed up. The screeching noise was me dragging my tire on the pavement during turns. The particular stretch of road I was hearing it on was a slightly swerving section through town, so it really accentuated it there in particular. Got the rod tightened up and what passes for an alignment here in Panama and she's so much tighter now.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed Reply with quote

Ok but hang on, something still seriously looks wrong with your brake pad. At best, the wrong pads are installed, at worst they could be falling out.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed Reply with quote

airschooled wrote:
Ok but hang on, something still seriously looks wrong with your brake pad. At best, the wrong pads are installed, at worst they could be falling out.


Agree. You should fix that for sure.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:26 am    Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed Reply with quote

airschooled wrote:
Ok but hang on, something still seriously looks wrong with your brake pad. At best, the wrong pads are installed, at worst they could be falling out.


Circling back around to this thread to try and address the misaligned calipers/brake pads. First, here is a picture of the pins. Looks fine to me but want to get another set of eyes.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


As for the caliper part number if I google the cast number (64321989) it doesn't have a lot of hits, but two of them indicate that this is the correct RH caliper for a '79 bus. "Caliper Girling 2x54w56 RH".

As for the pads, I purchased them from German Supply. Checking my receipt it lists them as:

"251 698 151A PAG Brake Pads Bus '73-'79 / Vanagon '80-'85 - Pagid Brand"

So this doesn't obviously suggest a misfit. Can't find the receipt for the rotors, so can't confirm those are correct.

Can anyone suggest a next step to figuring out what could be wrong here?

Thanks,

Kevin
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed Reply with quote

surfbus23 wrote:
airschooled wrote:
Ok but hang on, something still seriously looks wrong with your brake pad. At best, the wrong pads are installed, at worst they could be falling out.


Circling back around to this thread to try and address the misaligned calipers/brake pads. First, here is a picture of the pins. Looks fine to me but want to get another set of eyes.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


As for the caliper part number if I google the cast number (64321989) it doesn't have a lot of hits, but two of them indicate that this is the correct RH caliper for a '79 bus. "Caliper Girling 2x54w56 RH".

As for the pads, I purchased them from German Supply. Checking my receipt it lists them as:

"251 698 151A PAG Brake Pads Bus '73-'79 / Vanagon '80-'85 - Pagid Brand"

So this doesn't obviously suggest a misfit. Can't find the receipt for the rotors, so can't confirm those are correct.

Can anyone suggest a next step to figuring out what could be wrong here?

Thanks,

Kevin


Pull the OB pad. I want to see the friction face.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:51 am    Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed Reply with quote

what they are saying is that the inner edge of the pad appears too close to the hub. It should be over the shiny area only. Something is goofy with the installation. It is hard to say because the piston appears too far towards the hub too. Are these the original calipers and rotor that came with your bus

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
what they are saying is that the inner edge of the pad appears too close to the hub. It should be over the shiny area only. Something is goofy with the installation. It is hard to say because the piston appears too far towards the hub too. Are these the original calipers and rotor that came with your bus

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Mismatched OB caliper half? The pins would fit funky but sort of look correct.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed Reply with quote

from the photo it just looks like a brake job that is bound to cause all sorts of problems, or worse, kill someone. The original post involving the brakes started in April 2021. This is December. To Surfbus - might want to get someone helping you that knows brakes. The rotor appears really worn too, meaning maybe way too thin.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed Reply with quote

Some use ATF for cables.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed Reply with quote

A pretty good whack (accidental or on purpose) on the pad's rear side could have forced it towards the disk hub like that, probably bent the retaining pin too. From the looks of that rust, it happened quite some time ago.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed Reply with quote

The pad should not touch the rough part of the rotor.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Pull the pins and the pads. Make sure the pins went through the slots in the pad backing plate. Looks as if someone pushed the pad in too far. If not that, disassemble the whole thing and compare to the other side - they're mirror images of each other.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed Reply with quote

the piston is om the edge of the pad. I am thinking the wrong pads were used last time and the rotor is worn thin except in the rusty area. This is such a crappy brake situation i think the OP needs assistance with this.

Below is an image of my 1977 brakes when done with a new rotor. The disk has a trough next to the hub section. The photo of the OP's is raised making me think it has been worn thin.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is another image from the gallery. You can see the trough at the inner edge.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


same here

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


here is a 1978

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:32 am    Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed Reply with quote

Hmm... really not sure what make of this. The brake calipers are the ones that came with the bus when I purchased it. I rebuilt them very carefully using the Bentley and here as a guide. Everything as a unit has 15k miles on it.

I've been driving the Pan American highway and currently in Colombia, so a bit more difficult than normal to accomplish things. I took them to a brake place and they checked the pads and felt things looked normal. This is a Colombia brake place, however, so I won't claim they have the same standards.

I didn't grab a picture of the pads, but I did look at them and I didn't notice any raised edges. I didn't closely examine them, but I know when I put them in the pins were straight and I was watching the whole processes and they looked straight to me.

I understand that the pads should be more centered on the rotor. SGKent, can you help me understand better what the risks of continuing to operate like this are?

Thanks a ton everyone. Appreciate the input and help.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed Reply with quote

the pads need to sit on the completely flat and shiny portion of the rotor to work properly. From your photo it looks like they are sitting on a rusty ledge created where the last pads did not contact. Take a look in person since photos lie sometimes.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


In the photo below, you can see that the contact area from the prior pads goes much farther in than yours. Yours is not normal. It could be the pads are wrong, in wrong, or the last pads were not correct so they did not wear right. Were it me, I'd check the thickness of the rotor to be sure it is within specifications and replace them if they are not. If they are then a brake shop can turn them on a brake lathe to restore a proper surface.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Link

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