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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 10997
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 Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:37 am Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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Start with the easy, open the trunk and remove the two thick red and red/black wires and hot wire it. If the starter works fine the issue is in your ignition switch. If it doesn’t, then If you climb underneath and arc a screw driver across the terminal that the battery cable is bolted to to the solenoid terminal where you starter wire attaches and the starter works fine, your issue is elsewhere.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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Trylon
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019
Posts: 4853
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:41 am Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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Thanks Brau.
I have yet to acclimate to the wet/cold— the barn is less than appealing at the moment. Will get going soon.
I did go out to ease my mind that the engine turned smoothly and easily with a wrench.
It does and I can feel the compression as well.
Stay tuned…
_________________
1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire
More tomfoolery on
The Karmann Ghia Fever YouTube Channel! |
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rich caramadre
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2014
Posts: 145
Location: United States
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:11 am Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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| Hi Trylon. This is just a shot in the dark. But you set your timing a while back and the car was running great. Any chance that the distributer clamp was not tightened enough and it has turned? |
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Trylon
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019
Posts: 4853
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:12 am Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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| rich caramadre wrote: |
| Hi Trylon. This is just a shot in the dark. But you set your timing a while back and the car was running great. Any chance that the distributer clamp was not tightened enough and it has turned? |
Will check!
Thanks Rich!
_________________
1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire
More tomfoolery on
The Karmann Ghia Fever YouTube Channel! |
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Trylon
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019
Posts: 4853
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:05 am Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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So THAT’S how you hot wire start a car!
Cobbled this together to jump across terminals on starter switch:
Can a life of crime be far behind?
Unfortunately, still same molasses slow starter. So now me thinks we jack ‘er up and check out the starter/solenoid/bushing. Will first jump across terminals as detailed in Muir and see what info we get.
_________________
1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire
More tomfoolery on
The Karmann Ghia Fever YouTube Channel! |
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iowegian 
Samba Curmudgeon
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 9829
Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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| Trylon wrote: |
Unfortunately, still same molasses slow starter. So now me thinks we jack ‘er up and check out the starter/solenoid/bushing. Will first jump across terminals as detailed in Muir and see what info we get. |
Do you have a self-supporting/Autostick starter?
If not, it is likely that the starter armature is dragging on the field coil. |
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Trylon
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019
Posts: 4853
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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| iowegian wrote: |
| Trylon wrote: |
Unfortunately, still same molasses slow starter. So now me thinks we jack ‘er up and check out the starter/solenoid/bushing. Will first jump across terminals as detailed in Muir and see what info we get. |
Do you have a self-supporting/Autostick starter?
If not, it is likely that the starter armature is dragging on the field coil. |
That might account for the grinding sound.
Here’s what we have:
_________________
1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire
More tomfoolery on
The Karmann Ghia Fever YouTube Channel! |
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Trylon
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019
Posts: 4853
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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So seems that it is the starter, right?
Link
_________________
1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire
More tomfoolery on
The Karmann Ghia Fever YouTube Channel! |
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Trylon
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019
Posts: 4853
Location: Connecticut
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Loren
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2004
Posts: 1700
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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Looks like you have a 6v starter in the car? You will likely need to replace the starter bushing too since the 12v starter has a different diameter shaft than a 6v starter. Might not be a bad idea to replace the bushing anyway. You will likely need this conversion bushing to use a 12v starter on a split case transmission:
https://airheadparts.com/vw-part/bushing-starter-adaptor-12-volt/ |
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Trylon
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019
Posts: 4853
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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| Loren wrote: |
Looks like you have a 6v starter in the car? You will likely need to replace the starter bushing too since the 12v starter has a different diameter shaft than a 6v starter. Might not be a bad idea to replace the bushing anyway. You will likely need this conversion bushing to use a 12v starter on a split case transmission:
https://airheadparts.com/vw-part/bushing-starter-adaptor-12-volt/ |
Thanks Loren! So you can tell by looking that it is six volt?
I thought it was probably 12v — don’t 6volt burn out in a twelve volt system? Is that what happened?
Not sure we have a split case— doesn’t full synchromesh mean a later case?
If it is a 6 volt, then aren’t we just a few pieces away from bringing the whole car back to 6 volt? Coil, generator + VR, light bulbs, battery, anything else?
As you know, I would love it stock!
_________________
1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire
More tomfoolery on
The Karmann Ghia Fever YouTube Channel! |
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PeteSC
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 881
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:09 am Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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May want to pump the brakes on snapping up another starter. You have a 36hp engine with a 180mm flywheel. Most 12v starters have the drive gear for a 200mm flywheel.
You'll likely need something like this, if it is your starter that is bad.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=551031 |
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Trylon
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019
Posts: 4853
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:54 am Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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| PeteSC wrote: |
May want to pump the brakes on snapping up another starter. You have a 36hp engine with a 180mm flywheel. Most 12v starters have the drive gear for a 200mm flywheel.
You'll likely need something like this, if it is your starter that is bad.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=551031 |
Thanks Pete! Back to noob-land for me.
Here’s a pic of the flywheel:
I thought sometimes they are replaced and the bell housing is modified.
Can we tell the size of the flywheel from the pic?
_________________
1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire
More tomfoolery on
The Karmann Ghia Fever YouTube Channel! |
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PeteSC
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 881
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:26 am Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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Bell housings are opened up for 12v flywheels, true, but that's usually for the install of a later engine. I don't believe you can just bolt a 12v flywheel to a stock 36hp crank; different dowel pin sizes, etc. Also I'm guessing Loren is looking at your current starter and seeing the screw terminal solenoid, which is pointing to it still being a 6v unit.
Neither are my areas of expertise, so I'll defer to another member. But given the work done by the PO I'd be pretty confident that you've just been running 12v through an original, unmodified 6v starter. |
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Trylon
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019
Posts: 4853
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:48 am Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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| PeteSC wrote: |
Bell housings are opened up for 12v flywheels, true, but that's usually for the install of a later engine. I don't believe you can just bolt a 12v flywheel to a stock 36hp crank; different dowel pin sizes, etc. Also I'm guessing Loren is looking at your current starter and seeing the screw terminal solenoid, which is pointing to it still being a 6v unit.
Neither are my areas of expertise, so I'll defer to another member. But given the work done by the PO I'd be pretty confident that you've just been running 12v through an original, unmodified 6v starter. |
Wow! The PO Strikes Again!
Yep, I saw the screw terminal and decided that what was pushing the 6v theory.
Well, the only thing that was holding me back from bringing our car back to 6 volt was the flywheel. If that’s all set for 6v, let the games begin!
That 12v conversion of the generator seems to be on terminal hold so now we can just end it and get a refurbished 6v generator and VR. The wiring harness is set for 6v and I think my installation and grounding might let the drop in pressure still run the car. So like I said— starter, coil, battery, bulbs. Anything else?
_________________
1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire
More tomfoolery on
The Karmann Ghia Fever YouTube Channel! |
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iowegian
Samba Curmudgeon
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 9829
Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:57 am Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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| Trylon wrote: |
| So like I said— starter, coil, battery, bulbs. Anything else? |
Windshield wiper motor------or just roll with Rain-Ex. |
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Trylon
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019
Posts: 4853
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:04 am Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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| iowegian wrote: |
| Trylon wrote: |
| So like I said— starter, coil, battery, bulbs. Anything else? |
Windshield wiper motor------or just roll with Rain-Ex. |
Oh yeah!
I recall changing the motor for 12v. I still have the 6v part so I can simply change it back!
Thanks IO!
_________________
1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire
More tomfoolery on
The Karmann Ghia Fever YouTube Channel! |
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| Back to top |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 10997
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:05 am Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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That’s a super early screw terminal starter. If you are going to go back to 6V then have that one rebuilt. It’s correct for your year and not easy to find, most have push on connectors for the solenoid wire.
Unless the ring gear was changed out it’s a six V flywheel. That makes it easy to convert back. You can sell that Porsche 912 generator and pay for the conversion and have money to spare.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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| Back to top |
|
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Trylon
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019
Posts: 4853
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:20 am Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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| Braukuche wrote: |
That’s a super early screw terminal starter. If you are going to go back to 6V then have that one rebuilt. It’s correct for your year and not easy to find, most have push on connectors for the solenoid wire.
Unless the ring gear was changed out it’s a six V flywheel. That makes it easy to convert back. You can sell that Porsche 912 generator and pay for the conversion and have money to spare. |
Yes! This sounds like a plan!
So cool to turn a dead starter into a positive experience!
Now, still have to get the starter out. Rusty stud that I am pretty sure we will be sorry if it comes off. Blastered it last night. Getting a better wrench and trying again today. Wish us luck.
_________________
1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire
More tomfoolery on
The Karmann Ghia Fever YouTube Channel! |
|
| Back to top |
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Trylon
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019
Posts: 4853
Location: Connecticut
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