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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15985
Location: North Florida, USA
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 Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: Excessive Tire Wear |
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| MrGoodtunes wrote: |
| FL-Frank wrote: |
| ... Also, Can I do this accurately with the front wheels off, the magnetic gauge stuck to the brake drums, and with jack stands under the front beam? ... |
Of course you can do it that way if you wish; however, what really matters is where camber's at while you're driving down the road, with wheels on. Should be the same in theory, but weight on wheels may cause some parts to stress a bit or wear to show itself. |
If you place the jack stands under the front beam the suspension (torsion arms) will be allowed to drop fully extended. This is not how you drive down the road.
Conceptually, you might be able to get the same amount of suspension compression by placing the jack stands below the lower shock mounts to keep the suspension compressed as you take your measurements. But again, you don't drive down the road with the weight of the front carried by the shock mounts. The weight is carried by the drums spinning on the spindles. Play in the wheel bearings could result in small differences in the wheel angle (camber) between it hanging off the supported spindle and when the wheel is carrying the weight of the front.
Ideally, you want to mount that camber gauge to the surface the wheels mounts to (face of disc or drum where the wheel rests) or on a straight edge resting across the opposite edges of the wheels. Either will represent the angle of the wheel as it drives down the road. Take this measurement while the weight of the car is being supported by the wheels. This is the most accurate way. When the measurement precision you are trying to achieve is only 1/8*, every little thing makes a difference.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}
Last edited by ashman40 on Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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FL-Frank
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2015
Posts: 823
Location: Jupiter, Florida
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:03 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Tire Wear |
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| rcooled wrote: |
| FL-Frank wrote: |
| I installed a pair of caster shims last spring just prior to bringing the car to the alignment shop. |
I'd suggest that you remove the shims before attempting to align the front end. Caster shims are frequently used on cars with lowered front ends to correct the fore/aft steering pivot angle. If your car sits at stock ride height, and the steering wheel wants to return back toward center after completing a 90° turn, the shims shouldn't be needed. |
Thanks. The car is at stock ride height, and the steering wheel returns nicely to center. I added the caster shims to achieve better stability at highway speeds.
_________________
“Tinker Toy” 1967 Savannah Beige Beetle Sedan...........Mostly Original Survivor
“Fritz” 1964 Gulf Blue Karmann Ghia Coupe...Complete Pan-Off Restoration SOLD |
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FL-Frank
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2015
Posts: 823
Location: Jupiter, Florida
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:55 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Tire Wear |
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| ashman40 wrote: |
| MrGoodtunes wrote: |
| FL-Frank wrote: |
| ... Also, Can I do this accurately with the front wheels off, the magnetic gauge stuck to the brake drums, and with jack stands under the front beam? ... |
Of course you can do it that way if you wish; however, what really matters is where camber's at while you're driving down the road, with wheels on. Should be the same in theory, but weight on wheels may cause some parts to stress a bit or wear to show itself. |
If you place the jack stands under the front beam the suspension (torsion arms) will be allowed to drop fully extended. This is now how you drive down the road.
Conceptually, you might be able to get the same amount of suspension compression by placing the jack stands below the lower shock mounts to keep the suspension compressed as you take your measurements. But again, you don't drive down the road with the weight of the front carried by the shock mounts. The weight is carried by the drums spinning on the spindles. Play in the wheel bearings could result in small differences in the wheel angle (camber) between it hanging off the supported spindle and when the wheel is carrying the weight of the front.
Ideally, you want to mount that camber gauge to the surface the wheels mounts to (face of disc or drum where the wheel rests) or on a straight edge resting across the opposite edges of the wheels. Either will represent the angle of the wheel as it drives down the road. Take this measurement while the weight of the car is being supported by the wheels. This is the most accurate way. When the measurement precision you are trying to achieve is only 1/8*, every little thing makes a difference. |
Thank you. I just measured the camber on both front wheels with the car on the flat and level floor using the magnetic camber gauge pictured above. First I calibrated the gauge to zero using a bubble level in my vise. Next I attached the gauge to a 12” steel straight edge and held the straight edge running across the face of the wheel horizontally.
Results…Both the right and left front wheels are currently at 3/4 degrees positive camber.
Once the 36mm wrench I ordered (pictured above) arrives, I’ll be ready to work on adjusting the camber to 1/4 degree positive on both wheels.
_________________
“Tinker Toy” 1967 Savannah Beige Beetle Sedan...........Mostly Original Survivor
“Fritz” 1964 Gulf Blue Karmann Ghia Coupe...Complete Pan-Off Restoration SOLD |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34009
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Tire Wear |
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When you do, you will have to readjust toe, I believe.
And check the rear as well, then you know you are all done. |
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FL-Frank
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2015
Posts: 823
Location: Jupiter, Florida
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Excessive Tire Wear |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
When you do, you will have to readjust toe, I believe.
And check the rear as well, then you know you are all done. |
Thanks. Once I get the camber adjusted on both sides to +.25 degrees, my plan is to set up the strings so I can measure and adjust the front toe equally on both sides to 1/8” toe in and total toe in of 1/4”.
Then once I complete the front camber and toe adjustments, I’ll take a look at the rear. I’m hoping that the rear toe and camber are within spec as I don’t think I have the knowledge or skills required to do those adjustments correctly.
It’s kind of puzzling that the only issue I’m experiencing with the current alignment set up is the excessive wear on only the right front tire. The rest of the tires show very little wear, the car tracks straight and rides smoothly, the steering is precise, and the wheel returns smoothly to center after turns. So, since I’ve already determined that the current total toe is pretty far out of spec, I’m curious to see how the toe measurements per side come out. I’m thinking the left side toe may be set correctly, and that only the right side is considerably out of spec…thus the excessive wear on the outer half of that tire.
_________________
“Tinker Toy” 1967 Savannah Beige Beetle Sedan...........Mostly Original Survivor
“Fritz” 1964 Gulf Blue Karmann Ghia Coupe...Complete Pan-Off Restoration SOLD |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15985
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: Excessive Tire Wear |
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| FL-Frank wrote: |
| Thank you. I just measured the camber on both front wheels with the car on the flat and level floor using the magnetic camber gauge pictured above. First I calibrated the gauge to zero using a bubble level in my vise. Next I attached the gauge to a 12” steel straight edge and held the straight edge running across the face of the wheel horizontally. |
I think your method needs some work and you are not getting the measurements you think you are.
I thought the calibration of the bubble level should be done to take into account a work surface that is not 100% flat. Not sure why you used a vice (on your bench?) to zero the level? You are not aligning the bench. 
You should adjust the bubble level based on the flatness of the garage surface the front wheels are resting on. Place a (metal?) 90deg square on the ground next to the front wheel and place your bubble level on the vertical face of the square. Since the angle you are interested is the inward tilt of the top of the wheel, your 90deg square should point out from the side of the car. This should be perfectly perpendicular to the ground. You adjust the bubble level until is shows 0-deg. This adjusts for any slope in the ground that would affect the wheel camber.
Note that your are trying to measure the angle of the wheel top-to-bottom (camber) to see how much the top tilts inward towards the center of the car. So it doesn't matter as much that there may be a slight slight slope front-to-back as the car sits. But if the left side of the car is higher than the right the bubble camber measure will be affected.
This also means the straight edge placed across the wheel edges should be running top-to-bottom so it most accurately reflects the camber angle of the top-to-bottom of the wheel. Redo your measurements.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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FL-Frank
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2015
Posts: 823
Location: Jupiter, Florida
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Excessive Tire Wear |
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| ashman40 wrote: |
| FL-Frank wrote: |
| Thank you. I just measured the camber on both front wheels with the car on the flat and level floor using the magnetic camber gauge pictured above. First I calibrated the gauge to zero using a bubble level in my vise. Next I attached the gauge to a 12” steel straight edge and held the straight edge running across the face of the wheel horizontally. |
I think your method needs some work and you are not getting the measurements you think you are.
I thought the calibration of the bubble level should be done to take into account a work surface that is not 100% flat. Not sure why you used a vice (on your bench?) to zero the level? You are not aligning the bench.
You should adjust the bubble level based on the flatness of the garage surface the front wheels are resting on. Place a (metal?) 90deg square on the ground next to the front wheel and place your bubble level on the vertical face of the square. Since the angle you are interested is the inward tilt of the top of the wheel, your 90deg square should point out from the side of the car. This should be perfectly perpendicular to the ground. You adjust the bubble level until is shows 0-deg. This adjusts for any slope in the ground that would affect the wheel camber.
Note that your are trying to measure the angle of the wheel top-to-bottom (camber) to see how much the top tilts inward towards the center of the car. So it doesn't matter as much that there may be a slight slight slope front-to-back as the car sits. But if the left side of the car is higher than the right the bubble camber measure will be affected.
This also means the straight edge placed across the wheel edges should be running top-to-bottom so it most accurately reflects the camber angle of the top-to-bottom of the wheel. Redo your measurements. |
Thanks for the advice. I Looked online for a steel 90 degree square and found this one. It looks very sturdy, but It’s rather small at only 3” x 4”. Do you think this Would work with the 3” arm on the floor and the 4” arm in the vertical position with the magnetic camber gauge attached to the 4” arm?
_________________
“Tinker Toy” 1967 Savannah Beige Beetle Sedan...........Mostly Original Survivor
“Fritz” 1964 Gulf Blue Karmann Ghia Coupe...Complete Pan-Off Restoration SOLD |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34009
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Excessive Tire Wear |
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| FL-Frank wrote: |
Then once I complete the front camber and toe adjustments, I’ll take a look at the rear. I’m hoping that the rear toe and camber are within spec as I don’t think I have the knowledge or skills required to do those adjustments correctly.
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Most alignment shops don't have the knowledge, either!
Years ago I took mine to a tire shop along with the Bentley manual. Only one guy had ever worked on VWs, and the others either learned on my car or gave up! The one VW guy did it right, though.
Rear camber is based on spring plate angle. Threads about lowering cover this. And while you are at it, you can check and maybe replace your rear spring plate bushings, which will help alignment.
Rear toe is set by moving the rear axle forward or rearward after loosening the bolts on the spring plate.
Both of these steps are unknown to 99% of alignment shops, who may refuse to do the work altogether, or take shortcuts and screw it up. |
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rcooled
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2008
Posts: 2506
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: Excessive Tire Wear |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
| Both of these steps are unknown to 99% of alignment shops, who may refuse to do the work altogether, or take shortcuts and screw it up. |
You got that right. I've taken my VWs to some local shops for a wheel alignment, and no one would touch 'em. No specs in the computer they said, and heaven forbid if the lazy-ass tech should have to extend himself a bit and figure it out. It's butt-simple technology for cryin' out loud 
That's what prompted me to learn how to do my own wheel alignments at home. If you want anything done right on these cars anymore, it's best to just do it yourself if at all possible.
_________________
'63 Ragtop (current)
'65 Ghia coupe (totaled)
'67 Ghia convertible (current)
'69.5 Ghia convertible and
'62, '63, '65, '69 Bugs (all long gone) |
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FL-Frank
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2015
Posts: 823
Location: Jupiter, Florida
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| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:16 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Tire Wear |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
| FL-Frank wrote: |
Then once I complete the front camber and toe adjustments, I’ll take a look at the rear. I’m hoping that the rear toe and camber are within spec as I don’t think I have the knowledge or skills required to do those adjustments correctly.
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Most alignment shops don't have the knowledge, either!
Years ago I took mine to a tire shop along with the Bentley manual. Only one guy had ever worked on VWs, and the others either learned on my car or gave up! The one VW guy did it right, though.
Rear camber is based on spring plate angle. Threads about lowering cover this. And while you are at it, you can check and maybe replace your rear spring plate bushings, which will help alignment.
Rear toe is set by moving the rear axle forward or rearward after loosening the bolts on the spring plate.
Both of these steps are unknown to 99% of alignment shops, who may refuse to do the work altogether, or take shortcuts and screw it up. |
The rear spring plate bushings were replaced about 5 years (35,000 miles) ago by one of my old Porsche buddies when he fixed the typical saggy rear end issue found on many ‘67’s. He adjusted the rear camber and toe at that time so hopefully all’s ok back there.
I too have struggled to find a local alignment shop to do the job correctly. This last place I took it to was recommended to me by a couple of ACVW guys. Older crabby guy, pits in the floor instead of lifts, measurements taken with handheld tools rather than a laser lift setup, and when I asked him about the rear alignment he said “it’s good”…even though I watched him the entire time and he never even went to the rear of the car😳
_________________
“Tinker Toy” 1967 Savannah Beige Beetle Sedan...........Mostly Original Survivor
“Fritz” 1964 Gulf Blue Karmann Ghia Coupe...Complete Pan-Off Restoration SOLD
Last edited by FL-Frank on Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:49 am; edited 2 times in total |
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FL-Frank
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2015
Posts: 823
Location: Jupiter, Florida
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| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Tire Wear |
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So following ashman40’s advice, I just measured the camber again. I calibrated the gauge to zero using a 90 degree square sitting on the floor at the wheel, and then attached the calibrated gauge to the straight edge and placed that against the face of the wheel in the horizontal position.
Using this method, the camber is
Right Wheel (.5 ) degrees
Left Wheel. +.5 degrees
Next step will be to adjust the camber on both sides to + .25 degrees, and then move onto adjusting the toe.
_________________
“Tinker Toy” 1967 Savannah Beige Beetle Sedan...........Mostly Original Survivor
“Fritz” 1964 Gulf Blue Karmann Ghia Coupe...Complete Pan-Off Restoration SOLD |
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FL-Frank
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2015
Posts: 823
Location: Jupiter, Florida
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:07 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Tire Wear |
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This morning I took more measurements, and here’s the current setup…
Front
Left Camber + .5 degrees
Right Camber - .5 degrees
Toe + 1.25” Total Toe In
Rear
Left Camber. - .75 degrees
Right Camber - .75 degrees
Toe 0” Total Toe
Next I’ll be working on adjusting both fronts to +.25 degrees camber, and then both fronts to + 1/8” Toe In for a Total Toe In of + 1/4”
The rear spring plate bushings were replaced and the camber and toe were set up 5 years (35,000 miles) ago. I’d prefer to not mess with trying to adjust the rear camber or toe since it looks to be way more involved than I’m comfortable with.
Are the current REAR camber and Toe settings acceptable/within spec?
_________________
“Tinker Toy” 1967 Savannah Beige Beetle Sedan...........Mostly Original Survivor
“Fritz” 1964 Gulf Blue Karmann Ghia Coupe...Complete Pan-Off Restoration SOLD |
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iowegian
Samba Curmudgeon
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 9829
Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Tire Wear |
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| FL-Frank wrote: |
This morning I took more measurements, and here’s the current setup…
Front
Left Camber + .5 degrees
Right Camber - .5 degrees
Toe + 1.25” Total toe
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Quite the puzzlement.
If the right front has a touch of negative camber, why has the outside edge of the tire been totally erased ? That is opposite of how these things work.
And an inch and a quarter toe-in is HUGE----but why is the left tire good while the right tire has taken all the abuse?
Could there be something weird about the right tire itself? 
Are the tires genuine Michelin, or are they Coker reproductions? |
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FL-Frank
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2015
Posts: 823
Location: Jupiter, Florida
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:42 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Tire Wear |
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| iowegian wrote: |
| FL-Frank wrote: |
This morning I took more measurements, and here’s the current setup…
Front
Left Camber + .5 degrees
Right Camber - .5 degrees
Toe + 1.25” Total toe
|
Quite the puzzlement.
If the right front has a touch of negative camber, why has the outside edge of the tire been totally erased ? That is opposite of how these things work.
And an inch and a quarter toe-in is HUGE----but why is the left tire good while the right tire has taken all the abuse?
Could there be something weird about the right tire itself?
Are the tires genuine Michelin, or are they Coker reproductions? |
Excellent questions! As I learn more about and ponder all of this… I’m also wondering why the right front tire’s outer tread half is bald when my measurements indicate it’s got -.5 degrees camber. If anything, I would think the inner tread would be worn rather than the outer tread.
And I still need to set up the strings so I can measure to determine which side(s) is/are responsible for the excessive total toe in.
The tires were sourced from Coker. Are there issues with the Coker Michelins?
_________________
“Tinker Toy” 1967 Savannah Beige Beetle Sedan...........Mostly Original Survivor
“Fritz” 1964 Gulf Blue Karmann Ghia Coupe...Complete Pan-Off Restoration SOLD |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Tire Wear |
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| FL-Frank wrote: |
This morning I took more measurements, and here’s the current setup…
Front
Left Camber + .5 degrees
Right Camber - .5 degrees
Toe + 1.25” Total Toe In
Rear
Left Camber. - .75 degrees
Right Camber - .75 degrees
Toe 0” Total Toe
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Is that front toe 1 and 1/4 inches ?? If so.. thats a BIG red flag.
While generally not a tire wear angle to worry about.. If caster is way off it will also effect tire wear on sharp and often turns. If you drive a lot of town and turn driving and its jacking that RF wheel on the edge it will wipe it out.
While incorrect toe problems generally effect the entire axle incorrect toe will slap wear out a tire quickly,
Another thing are these REAL Michelins or Coker re-molds?
Michelin has recently had a bad run of tires with soft tire compounds which wear out way too fast.
Coker is Coker.. not the best.
.
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
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Last edited by VOLKSWAGNUT on Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:19 am; edited 2 times in total |
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FL-Frank
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2015
Posts: 823
Location: Jupiter, Florida
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:15 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Tire Wear |
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| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
| FL-Frank wrote: |
This morning I took more measurements, and here’s the current setup…
Front
Left Camber + .5 degrees
Right Camber - .5 degrees
Toe + 1.25” Total Toe In
Rear
Left Camber. - .75 degrees
Right Camber - .75 degrees
Toe 0” Total Toe
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Is that front toe 1 and 1/4 inches ?? If so.. thats a BIG red flag..
Another thing are these REAL Michelins or Coker re-molds?
. |
Yep, total toe in of 1.25”. As mentioned earlier, I have to set up strings so I can determine if it’s one or both side that are out.
They,’re Coker repopped Michelin’s. Are there reported issues with these?
_________________
“Tinker Toy” 1967 Savannah Beige Beetle Sedan...........Mostly Original Survivor
“Fritz” 1964 Gulf Blue Karmann Ghia Coupe...Complete Pan-Off Restoration SOLD |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Tire Wear |
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See edited post.. ^
And post a pic of the LF tire.. also what are the tread depths of the other 3?
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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FL-Frank
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2015
Posts: 823
Location: Jupiter, Florida
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:50 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Tire Wear |
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| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
See edited post.. ^
And post a pic of the LF tire.. also what are the tread depths of the other 3? |
The remaining 3 tires have approximately 4/32” tread remaining (using the quarter test).
These Coker Michelin tres have approximately 6,000 miles on them, 95% of which is in and around town.
And Here’s the left front tire viewed from the front…
_________________
“Tinker Toy” 1967 Savannah Beige Beetle Sedan...........Mostly Original Survivor
“Fritz” 1964 Gulf Blue Karmann Ghia Coupe...Complete Pan-Off Restoration SOLD |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Tire Wear |
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If you look at the LF tire its wearing the same way just not as quickly.
Bad compound with incorrect excessive toe in ... is the answer
At 6k miles and to wear to 4/32 is ridiculous. NEW they were near 8/32 . So half gone ...
Those tires originally would go easily to over 20k miles .. with Michelin compound .
Advice... don't buy Coker unless you have no other choice.
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34009
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:12 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Tire Wear |
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With that much toe-in it's a wonder the car was drivable!
It's not really worth micro-diagnosing what happened with the toe so far off, all bets are off! I'd simply figure you had massive scrubbing and that was focussed on the tire with positive camber.
Zero rear toe is okay. A slight toe-out on rear-heavy swing axle cars is sometimes helpful. It can prevent the "corkscrewing" you can get when making a sweeping turn on an undulating road (like on bumpy freeway interchanges), and so it's more stable (self-correcting without requiring you to move the steering wheel). But it's subtle and you should be fine with zero.
You'll be pleasantly surprised how well it handles once you get the front set right! |
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