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Bug-nut Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2015 Posts: 488 Location: Knoxville, TN
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:23 pm Post subject: Hagerty collector car insurance goes public... |
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https://finance.yahoo.com/news/hagerty-debuts-today-publicly-traded-121500687.html
Is this a good or a bad thing? I (currently) use Hagerty, and have for the past 5 years or so. So far I've never had to file a claim with them, and their prices have been very reasonable. However, following this merger and them going public, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that here soon we will see their prices start going up. I'm sure they will blame it on inflation (could be partially true) but it always seems that companies get greedy and drift away from their earlier, more customer focused roots when they start merging and going public. Then again I'm a huge pessimist, and very cynical of mankind these days. For those of you here with more knowledge with me, what do you think? Do you think this merger will drive our costs up? Will them going public be bad for us in the long run?
For those members here who do not use Hagerty to insure your collector cars, what company do you use? Have you had good or bad experiences with them? Thanks for the replies. _________________ 1959 Fjord Blue Volkswagen Beetle
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=
1962 Austin-Healey Sprite
Snort wrote: |
A 59 Beetle is just an Oval-Window car with aspirations of modernity. |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22670 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:24 am Post subject: Re: Hagerty collector car insurance goes public... |
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Going public is always bad. The wankers at the top spout the usual Harvard BS about running the company for the triad of the employees, customers, and shareholders but are compensated in stock, so it’s gets run for the shareholders,to its detriment.
That song has been playing for ages _________________ .ssS! |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31379 Location: Hot Arizona
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kingkarmann Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2003 Posts: 4114
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:44 am Post subject: Re: Hagerty collector car insurance goes public... |
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I dropped Hagarty last summer. Not for this reason though.
IMO it's a smart move. They merged with Aldel financial allowing investors another way to invest in the classic car market.
The merger is valued at $3B
The classic car market is growing. I don't think it's going to contract.
I bought some shares yesterday. We shall see.....
Here's some news
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/18/classic-car-insure...-deal.html _________________ "Depression is a malfunction of the instrument we use to determine reality.”
Mike Gerson
What is your "Bespoke Reality"? |
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coad Samba Scapegoat
Joined: September 12, 2002 Posts: 7552
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:57 am Post subject: Re: Hagerty collector car insurance goes public... |
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Here's the Power Point they used to sell this to Wall Street. Interesting bits about their growing alliance with State Farm, and their plans to grow revenue from memberships and other non-insurance sources.
https://d1io3yog0oux5.cloudfront.net/aldelfinancia...vFinal.pdf
Looks like the smart money is investing in the warrants for about 3X the leverage.
Funny thing often happens when niche companies like this go public. They're able to fly under the radar when they're private, but once they're public and all their financial details are a matter of public record it's not long before the big boys in the industry look at their numbers and think "Hey, we should go after a piece of this market." All of a sudden they have new competition coming out of the woodwork. |
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kingkarmann Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2003 Posts: 4114
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Hagerty collector car insurance goes public... |
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coad wrote: |
Here's the Power Point they used to sell this to Wall Street. Interesting bits about their growing alliance with State Farm, and their plans to grow revenue from memberships and other non-insurance sources.
https://d1io3yog0oux5.cloudfront.net/aldelfinancia...vFinal.pdf
Looks like the smart money is investing in the warrants for about 3X the leverage.
Funny thing often happens when niche companies like this go public. They're able to fly under the radar when they're private, but once they're public and all their financial details are a matter of public record it's not long before the big boys in the industry look at their numbers and think "Hey, we should go after a piece of this market." All of a sudden they have new competition coming out of the woodwork. |
Interesting.
I have been a decades long customer of State Farm. My agent had hounded me for several years to write a policy for the Ghia.
I finally relented and provided him with my Hagarty policy to see if SF could provide comparable coverage for the same amount or hopefully less.
SF is aggressively seeking to compete with the likes of Hagarty and my agent was finally able to write a policy on both Ghia’s at an Agreed(not stated) value and will cover parts and a repair shop of my choosing should the need arise.
State Farm is a sponsor with Mecum during their live telecasts.
Their shift into marketing in the classic car space is what made me decide that the Hagarty SPAC was worth investing in.
It’s like the casino. You play with what your comfortable losing. _________________ "Depression is a malfunction of the instrument we use to determine reality.”
Mike Gerson
What is your "Bespoke Reality"? |
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67 Florida Deluxe Samba Purist
Joined: June 21, 2005 Posts: 7987 Location: Gainesville and Tampa, Florida
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:34 pm Post subject: Re: Hagerty collector car insurance goes public... |
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I'm conflicted on this. Publicly traded companies need to turn a profit to keep shareholders happy; the bigger the profit, the happier the shareholders. I have Hagerty on my cars under their "Expert Collector" program having graduated from their regular program (thus saving me some money on the annual premium).
This change to a publicly traded company (to me) is a big red flag that I (and every other policy holder) will be bent over the saw horse in a not so flattering way. _________________ -Kent (BaT "daleallen")
OG member of the '67 Posse
A few of my toys, past and present
'56 Oval, '66 KG Conv't, '67 21-Window, '67 Bug, '79 SuperVert, '55 Pre-A Continental |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12740 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:03 am Post subject: Re: Hagerty collector car insurance goes public... |
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They refused to consider insuring my Manx copy so should I care? _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22670 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:51 am Post subject: Re: Hagerty collector car insurance goes public... |
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I self insure my shinola. If I own something expensive enough to have to insure it , it owns me. If the Creator wants to recall one of mycars, that’s fine with me. I spend the premiums in escorts and blow.
Toot your horn each time you pass an insurance agent, not toot me toot.
Quote: |
This change to a publicly traded company (to me) is a big red flag that I (and every other policy holder) will be bent over the saw horse in a not so flattering way. |
Correct _________________ .ssS! |
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Bug-nut Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2015 Posts: 488 Location: Knoxville, TN
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Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:09 am Post subject: Re: Hagerty collector car insurance goes public... |
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Abscate wrote: |
Going public is always bad. The wankers at the top spout the usual Harvard BS about running the company for the triad of the employees, customers, and shareholders but are compensated in stock, so it’s gets run for the shareholders,to its detriment.
That song has been playing for ages |
That's what I'm concerned about and why I asked what other companies you guys use. I'm not opposed to leaving Hagerty for another company as long as I can get an agreed value set up with them (as opposed to stated value). I agree with what Coad said about them going public will make other bigger companies stand up and take notice. Perhaps in the next year or so the other companies will start offering competitive policies and it will force Hagerty to keep their prices in check. Or not, who knows... _________________ 1959 Fjord Blue Volkswagen Beetle
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=
1962 Austin-Healey Sprite
Snort wrote: |
A 59 Beetle is just an Oval-Window car with aspirations of modernity. |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9966 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Hagerty collector car insurance goes public... |
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It is a bad thing! Anytime someone new stirs the pot, the shit stinks worse! That is a proven fact.
In this case. The investor wants to get back this up front capital output, plus pay for changing the systems, hiring more people (got to have a few “trusted” people on the inside), covering new manager salaries (same - trusted), and the software change. Sounds expensive, for no additional benefit to the end user. But, that is not a variable which is considered.
Bottom line. They will be raising rates! Damn lawyers! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12740 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Hagerty collector car insurance goes public... |
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Abscate wrote: |
I self insure my shinola. If I own something expensive enough to have to insure it , it owns me. If the Creator wants to recall one of mycars, that’s fine with me. |
Can't do that where I live. All cars have to be properly insured to drive on the road. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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67ctbug Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2016 Posts: 3624 Location: CT
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Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: Hagerty collector car insurance goes public... |
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oprn wrote: |
Abscate wrote: |
I self insure my shinola. If I own something expensive enough to have to insure it , it owns me. If the Creator wants to recall one of mycars, that’s fine with me. |
Can't do that where I live. All cars have to be properly insured to drive on the road. |
Yup, CT won't even let you register a car without an insurance card. _________________ '67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016
KentPS wrote: |
...or the PO envied the terrorists' bus in "Back to the Future". |
mukluk wrote: |
He's fine, just waiting for the dragon in winklepickers to move out of his lane. |
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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12468
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Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: Hagerty collector car insurance goes public... |
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My wife worked for a big insurance company. They used to have great Christmas parties and the work atmosphere was great and then they went public. It happened slowly and by degrees. New management, new metrics and the tightening just never stopped. It went from great work environment, great benefits and retirement to pressure cooker, no retirement shitty benefits. Many folks just quit. It took years but the M. O. Is always the same the bean counters go in and strip everything to the bone to maximize ROI for shareholders.
Before it got real tight the big insurance company took us to Vegas for a few days free everything and private concert with John Melloncamp, the next year was Disney World. Insurance companies have lots of money and I was greatly impressed. 😀 this company was so smart they ditched their well known logo which was a well known bird named snoopy. |
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Manfred58sc Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2009 Posts: 3382
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Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: Hagerty collector car insurance goes public... |
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The Classic Car market is expanding??? In the number of owners or overall value?? I bet the number of actually insured and registered classic cars is down and dropping. The average age at car shows is like 70 and the actuaries know exactly what the score is. Going Public before the demographic collapse of the boomers and their assets is a calculated liquidation before the whole fucking thing goes south. State Farm will insure your ride for cheap if its safely tucked away between shows for cheap ( my Saab 96 is $20 for 6 months). _________________ Fat chick owner/operator |
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67ctbug Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2016 Posts: 3624 Location: CT
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Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: Hagerty collector car insurance goes public... |
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Manfred58sc wrote: |
The Classic Car market is expanding??? In the number of owners or overall value?? I bet the number of actually insured and registered classic cars is down and dropping. The average age at car shows is like 70 and the actuaries know exactly what the score is. Going Public before the demographic collapse of the boomers and their assets is a calculated liquidation before the whole fucking thing goes south. State Farm will insure your ride for cheap if its safely tucked away between shows for cheap ( my Saab 96 is $20 for 6 months). |
You have to think of what your definition of a classic car is. 1960? 70? 80? maybe even 90? Some junior in high school might love a fox body Mustang. That's his CLASSIC. It's an 86 or whatever. To you it might be a piece of junk, but the ability to go and get classic insurance on it is great. As generations change "new" cars become classics. I've got all my stuff on Hagerty right now for $115 a month at 19 with no accidents. They basically cut it in half from my first year with them. Other insurance companies wanted boat loads. I go to car shows and I see tons of young people, now they might be in a '90s Honda, or a Fiero, but that's the classic they've chosen to love and nowadays, they ARE classics. _________________ '67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016
KentPS wrote: |
...or the PO envied the terrorists' bus in "Back to the Future". |
mukluk wrote: |
He's fine, just waiting for the dragon in winklepickers to move out of his lane. |
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kingkarmann Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2003 Posts: 4114
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:53 am Post subject: Re: Hagerty collector car insurance goes public... |
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Hagarty's prospectus is interesting if you can trust the research.
They currently insure 2 million cars. Their research shows there are potentially 43 million classics, exotics, and other special interest vehicles that Hagarty can exploit.
43 million seems way inflated but even if the potential market is half of that it's still a large number. _________________ "Depression is a malfunction of the instrument we use to determine reality.”
Mike Gerson
What is your "Bespoke Reality"? |
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iowegian Samba Curmudgeon
Joined: February 16, 2005 Posts: 9829 Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:10 am Post subject: Re: Hagerty collector car insurance goes public... |
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67ctbug wrote: |
You have to think of what your definition of a classic car is. 1960? 70? 80? maybe even 90? Some junior in high school might love a fox body Mustang. That's his CLASSIC. It's an 86 or whatever. To you it might be a piece of junk, but the ability to go and get classic insurance on it is great. As generations change "new" cars become classics. I've got all my stuff on Hagerty right now for $115 a month at 19 with no accidents. They basically cut it in half from my first year with them. Other insurance companies wanted boat loads. I go to car shows and I see tons of young people, now they might be in a '90s Honda, or a Fiero, but that's the classic they've chosen to love and nowadays, they ARE classics. |
Hagerty is insuring our 2008 VW EOS (only used on sunny summer days)
on the same policy as our '66 Beetle. |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69827 Location: Phoenix Metro
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:07 am Post subject: Re: Hagerty collector car insurance goes public... |
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iowegian wrote: |
67ctbug wrote: |
You have to think of what your definition of a classic car is. 1960? 70? 80? maybe even 90? Some junior in high school might love a fox body Mustang. That's his CLASSIC. It's an 86 or whatever. To you it might be a piece of junk, but the ability to go and get classic insurance on it is great. As generations change "new" cars become classics. I've got all my stuff on Hagerty right now for $115 a month at 19 with no accidents. They basically cut it in half from my first year with them. Other insurance companies wanted boat loads. I go to car shows and I see tons of young people, now they might be in a '90s Honda, or a Fiero, but that's the classic they've chosen to love and nowadays, they ARE classics. |
Hagerty is insuring our 2008 VW EOS (only used on sunny summer days)
on the same policy as our '66 Beetle. |
Quote: |
Hagarty's prospectus is interesting if you can trust the research.
They currently insure 2 million cars. Their research shows there are potentially 43 million classics, exotics, and other special interest vehicles that Hagarty can exploit.
43 million seems way inflated but even if the potential market is half of that it's still a large number. |
Yes, I'm suspecting they are already insuring, or see a market for, a lot of "extra" cars, even those that we might not consider vintage or collectible.
There are a lot of people in my area with fairly modern Corvettes, Mustangs, Ferraris, etc. that are just "toys" for people - not their daily car. They only drive them on the weekends or for pleasure. _________________ How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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iowegian Samba Curmudgeon
Joined: February 16, 2005 Posts: 9829 Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: Hagerty collector car insurance goes public... |
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EverettB wrote: |
iowegian wrote: |
67ctbug wrote: |
You have to think of what your definition of a classic car is. 1960? 70? 80? maybe even 90? Some junior in high school might love a fox body Mustang. That's his CLASSIC. It's an 86 or whatever. To you it might be a piece of junk, but the ability to go and get classic insurance on it is great. As generations change "new" cars become classics. I've got all my stuff on Hagerty right now for $115 a month at 19 with no accidents. They basically cut it in half from my first year with them. Other insurance companies wanted boat loads. I go to car shows and I see tons of young people, now they might be in a '90s Honda, or a Fiero, but that's the classic they've chosen to love and nowadays, they ARE classics. |
Hagerty is insuring our 2008 VW EOS (only used on sunny summer days)
on the same policy as our '66 Beetle. |
Quote: |
Hagarty's prospectus is interesting if you can trust the research.
They currently insure 2 million cars. Their research shows there are potentially 43 million classics, exotics, and other special interest vehicles that Hagarty can exploit.
43 million seems way inflated but even if the potential market is half of that it's still a large number. |
Yes, I'm suspecting they are already insuring, or see a market for, a lot of "extra" cars, even those that we might not consider vintage or collectible.
There are a lot of people in my area with fairly modern Corvettes, Mustangs, Ferraris, etc. that are just "toys" for people - not their daily car. They only drive them on the weekends or for pleasure. |
In my case, there is one premium that covers liability for both the vehicles on the policy. The collision/ comprehensive premium on the EOS ($8,000 agreed value) is about the same as it is on the '66 Beetle ($20,000 agreed value).
In other words the rate-per-thousand on the non-vintage car is nearly 2.5
times as much. However, it still is a bargain compared to what StateFarm was charging me. |
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