Author |
Message |
67splittwist Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2021 Posts: 15
|
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Bus Engine Decision |
|
|
Thanks for the replies. I recently ran across a complete B5 1600 out of a 68 Bus. I assume the engine/components out of a bay window will fit right into my split? Any issues with the B5 block? I know it is a single relief block. Still better to use a later model 1600 block for reliability (cooling improvements/dual relief block)? Thanks. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24671 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Bus Engine Decision |
|
|
Dual relief engine case would be much better for cooling and longevity. post-1967 engine tin will not work well with 1967 air cleaner. Post-1967 air cleaner has no place to mount. Pre-1968 engine tin can be fitted. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BarryL Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 14218 Location: Casa de Oro, California
|
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Bus Engine Decision |
|
|
67splittwist wrote: |
Any issues with the B5 block? |
Check for a crack on the flywheel side where #3 resides. Later blocks got beefed up there as well as a deep stud fix for #3. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
|
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Bus Engine Decision |
|
|
Yes the B5 case would be about the same as the original case maybe use a filter oil pump on it and get a strong counterweighted crankshaft like a DPR welded VW Crank and have the case inserted a deep insert on #3 top cylinder stud near the flywheel. Have the rods resized etc... at least install new 85.5mm cylinders maybe K type 88's but they require extra headwork. Single HD valve springs, swivel feet adjusters, solid rocker shafts and some lightweight lifters and a bit of cam would be nice. Go with the original engine tin if keeping it a single port. If you want the AH Case that all works too and you could go either way single or dual port, the AH with the Doghouse cooling and Dual Port heads can be a more powerful engine with dual 40mm IDF carbs and a lot more cam: Webcam 218. _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
67splittwist Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2021 Posts: 15
|
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:00 am Post subject: Re: 67 Bus Engine Decision |
|
|
Thanks again for the input. I appreciate all of the expertise....its very helpful. I am scrapping the 68 B5 engine thoughts. Sounds like it isnt as good a fit and not as strong a block as the later 1600s. I am back to where I started. I have found an AH motor that is stuck and an AK motor that spins. From the research Ive done, I believe the AH and AK to be similar. I will have to find a set of sp heads for it. Can someone please tell me if there is a specific single port head that I want to look for? In my working with American muscle cars, heads are everything and there are generally certain casting numbers that I'm after to find the 'good' heads. Are VWs this way too? Thanks. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24671 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:16 am Post subject: Re: 67 Bus Engine Decision |
|
|
With the ACVW engine it is more involved that just slapping a pair of heads to get anything more than minor performance improvement. This really requires not only replacing the heads with ones with big valves, but the cam, muffler, and going to bigger carbs. Then probably bigger pistons and stroker crankshaft. Problem with going that way is one ends up all too often with higher HP at way higher RPMs that do not result in engine longevity, with less torque at lower RPMs which is not what you want in a bus.
Better off getting stock type heads. Single port for more torque. Clean out all the casting flash out of the exterior fins, and maybe do a little porting if you really want to. Lots of great info in the performance forum on giving the engine mild improvements without going bonkers. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
67splittwist Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2021 Posts: 15
|
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:34 am Post subject: Re: 67 Bus Engine Decision |
|
|
Thanks. Yes...definitely want stock. I am going to go back 100% stock. Stock bore, stock cam, etc. I will have a machine shop go over the heads I find and put new valves in them. No porting, just stock. Any particular 1600 head or are all 1500/1600 heads the same...that is my main question. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
67splittwist Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2021 Posts: 15
|
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:34 am Post subject: Re: 67 Bus Engine Decision |
|
|
Single port heads is what I am asking about. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24671 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Bus Engine Decision |
|
|
67splittwist wrote: |
Single port heads is what I am asking about. |
Original VW of Germany or the original suppliers to VW are of best quality, but getting harder to find in rebuildable shape.
VW of Brazilian or the original suppliers to VW of Brazil are somewhat less quality, but often can be with some work be as good as German.
Chinese manufactured heads have an OK reputation, but of course that can change in the next shipment. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
NUTSFORBUSES Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2016 Posts: 555 Location: I don't recognize it anymore
|
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Bus Engine Decision |
|
|
Eric&Barb wrote: |
67splittwist wrote: |
Single port heads is what I am asking about. |
Original VW of Germany or the original suppliers to VW are of best quality, but getting harder to find in rebuildable shape.
VW of Brazilian or the original suppliers to VW of Brazil are somewhat less quality, but often can be with some work be as good as German.
Chinese manufactured heads have an OK reputation, but of course that can change in the next shipment. |
Words of wisdom right there. My case is from Brazil (Bubble-top Super case) and it was re worked, as were my new heads w great internals.
I'm a Big engine guy (wasn't always) but now with 4x the HP, I really love it. All I know now is, these days, if you want a great dependable runner, it will cost you.
Many may argue with me, but I think Great VW motors are about $45 = 1 HP.
then it goes way up for motors with dual carbs & over 2 liters. My first VW SP rebuild was about $400 back in 1979. _________________ kaiser kills kids.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
67splittwist Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2021 Posts: 15
|
Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Bus Engine Decision |
|
|
I am wanting to buy a used set of 1600 heads and have them freshened up by a professional back to stock...no porting. I am building a completely stock 1600. So, will any nice set of factory single port 1500/1600 heads work? Are all 1500/1600 VW factory heads the same or are there different casting versions, one better than another? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24671 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Bus Engine Decision |
|
|
There are different versions, but none that one should never use.
Only exception would be the round boss heads made for 1963 only bus. Those are so rare that they really should be used on a complete 1963 1500cc restoration. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Clara Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003 Posts: 12384
|
Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Bus Engine Decision |
|
|
67splittwist wrote: |
I am wanting to buy a used set of 1600 heads and have them freshened up by a professional back to stock...no porting. I am building a completely stock 1600. So, will any nice set of factory single port 1500/1600 heads work? Are all 1500/1600 VW factory heads the same or are there different casting versions, one better than another? |
Do make sure they are the same as each other... a matched pair. You don't want one side of the engine different than the other.
Quote: |
Thanks. Yes...definitely want stock. I am going to go back 100% stock. Stock bore, stock cam, etc. I will have a machine shop go over the heads I find and put new valves in them. No porting, just stock. Any particular 1600 head or are all 1500/1600 heads the same...that is my main question. |
You are getting a lot of suggestions that are not 100% stock. FWIW, some times 'stock' is used as 'not high-performance' and sometimes as 'bone stock for the bus' So you could build a motor on a B case or AH case, but it is not bone stock for a 67 bus.
It is a lot of work to put together a bone stock engine with all the right details for your bus. There are a lot of versions of the generator/ carb/ distributor/ manifold/ tins/ aircleaner, etc.
For a driver bus, I like a late dual relief case with small studs and case savers
use the doghouse oil cooler
and make sure all the tin is there with the pre-heat and thermostat,
but I have also happily driven on H cases.
If I happen to have a motor that runs kicking around (ha ha), it can generally be bolted in and driven, with swapping out only a few bits... like making sure the clutch and muffler fit, and using the right aircleaner.
I think if you don't flog it in hot weather the H cases are fine. The later alloy and better cooling with the later features (stock for later engines, not stock for 1967) are more sturdy under adverse conditions. I've found early cases that have warped.
I've put about 70K miles on the motor in my red bus. I ccd the heads and cleaned the chambers so they are within half a cc of each other. Also did some porting, and cleaned casting flashing and it is completely dressed and type IV doghouse. It feels a bit tired now, could use a spruce up. _________________ The Obsolete Air-Cooled Documentation Project http://oacdp.org/ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
67splittwist Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2021 Posts: 15
|
Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Bus Engine Decision |
|
|
Excellent. Thanks guys. That is the info I was looking for. I am putting together a stock 1600 on an AH or AK block. I know the H0 1500 is 'bone stock' for my bus, but my bus is going to be a nice driver....not a 'show bus'. I want the benefits of the later 1600. It will be stock as far as 1600s go and it will look stock sitting in the back of my bus. I appreciate the help. I just need to find the heads, tins, intake, etc to change my engine from dual port to single port. Thanks again. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BarryL Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 14218 Location: Casa de Oro, California
|
Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Bus Engine Decision |
|
|
Where are you in the world? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|