Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
1982 Golf 1300cc starting trouble after standing long
Forum Index -> Water-cooled VW Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ElStiemo
Samba Member


Joined: August 12, 2021
Posts: 59
Location: Windhoek, Namibia
ElStiemo is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:52 pm    Post subject: 1982 Golf 1300cc starting trouble after standing long Reply with quote

Hi everybody,

any clever ideas? My '82 1300cc struggles to start after standing for a long time (overnight, couple of days, etc). It needs cranking over for quite some time (minute or more), and will then fire and run fine with some choke. If turned off immediately, it will start again without this issue... The engine runs fine.

It feels to me as though the carb is empty and the fuel pump needs some time to refill it to be able to start. There is no fuel leak. What else could I check? I suspect the return line is "draining" the carb empty after switching off. Evaporation of the fuel from the carb from the heat of driving might contribute? How can this be prevented?

Thanks for any suggestions
_________________
From the VW stable:
1982 Golf 1 3-door
1972 1600 Beetle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Butcher
Samba Member


Joined: December 05, 2015
Posts: 1285
Location: Right Here
Butcher is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:48 am    Post subject: Re: 1982 Golf 1300cc starting trouble after standing long Reply with quote

As far as I'm concerned, the Germans never made a good carburetor.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
TornadoRed06
Samba Member


Joined: August 30, 2020
Posts: 191
Location: Porto - Portugal
TornadoRed06 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:46 pm    Post subject: Re: 1982 Golf 1300cc starting trouble after standing long Reply with quote

Butcher wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, the Germans never made a good carburetor.


Laughing

... as far as I'm concerned, people kill the Machine.

The following I will add, might or might not help into the right direction:

assuming the carburetor is correctly set, no vacuum leaks/faulty, how do you proceed with the cold start (disregarding outside temperature)?
1-do you press the gas pedal once or twice (on/off);
2-do you then crank the engine to start (feet outside gas pedal)

and if no luck:

3-do you repeat crank again but this time slowly but steady press the gas pedal to full while cranking the engine

Either way, no cranking more than 5 seconds and only repeating cranking after 30 seconds elapsed fully.

I assume spark plugs perfect or in running order, fuel lines not clogged, but very important fuel filter & pump near the tank also OK.
As you suspect, it looks like fuel starving at first crank (cold start).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ElStiemo
Samba Member


Joined: August 12, 2021
Posts: 59
Location: Windhoek, Namibia
ElStiemo is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 1982 Golf 1300cc starting trouble after standing long Reply with quote

TornadoRed06 wrote:
Butcher wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, the Germans never made a good carburetor.


Laughing

... as far as I'm concerned, people kill the Machine.

The following I will add, might or might not help into the right direction:

assuming the carburetor is correctly set, no vacuum leaks/faulty, how do you proceed with the cold start (disregarding outside temperature)?
1-do you press the gas pedal once or twice (on/off);
2-do you then crank the engine to start (feet outside gas pedal)

and if no luck:

3-do you repeat crank again but this time slowly but steady press the gas pedal to full while cranking the engine

Either way, no cranking more than 5 seconds and only repeating cranking after 30 seconds elapsed fully.

I assume spark plugs perfect or in running order, fuel lines not clogged, but very important fuel filter & pump near the tank also OK.
As you suspect, it looks like fuel starving at first crank (cold start).


Thanks for the suggestions.

Spark plugs are practically new, it did it with the previous set as well. I dont see any clogged fuel line etc as it should then have trouble running properly, same with a faulty pump...

Starting procedure is as you describe above for the first attempt, although I do crank it for more than 5 seconds... Plus I use a little choke (lever half out). Will try the full throttle approach you mention when I am next at the car tonight.
_________________
From the VW stable:
1982 Golf 1 3-door
1972 1600 Beetle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
TornadoRed06
Samba Member


Joined: August 30, 2020
Posts: 191
Location: Porto - Portugal
TornadoRed06 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:33 am    Post subject: Re: 1982 Golf 1300cc starting trouble after standing long Reply with quote

How is it going with the start-up troubleshooting?
Reading your reply, I am most intrigued when you say that you position the choke at half its range at cold start. What type of carburetor is the engine running, Pierburg 2E3?
Shouldn't be full choke range at cold start, also is it actuating accordingly, I mean no slack? (hence also my previous reference to 'carburetor is correctly set').
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ElStiemo
Samba Member


Joined: August 12, 2021
Posts: 59
Location: Windhoek, Namibia
ElStiemo is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:33 pm    Post subject: Re: 1982 Golf 1300cc starting trouble after standing long Reply with quote

I tried the suggested method of slowly increasing to full throttle on the second attempt. Absolutely no difference. It only starts after quite some turning over (lets say 30 sec to a minute) but thereafter, starts normally.

The choke does not have any slack at the carburettor. I just use halfway setting as we currently have around 30degC outside temperatures. I was always told to use full choke only in winter...

Will try next with full choke setting. I will need to check make and model of carb for you, Pierburg sounds right.

Will revert back.
_________________
From the VW stable:
1982 Golf 1 3-door
1972 1600 Beetle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ElStiemo
Samba Member


Joined: August 12, 2021
Posts: 59
Location: Windhoek, Namibia
ElStiemo is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:50 am    Post subject: Re: 1982 Golf 1300cc starting trouble after standing long Reply with quote

I tried starting the car with the choke lever set to fully out on the starting attempt as opposed to half way out.

It does not make any difference. Once the car starts, it will stay running with the choke out fully or half way. It restarts easily with both settings if turned off straight away, but the engine splutters and almost dies if I push the choke in fully immediately after the engine has started.

This is obviously only on cold start. Once the engine is warm, it starts easily, without the need for any choke.

I forgot to check the carburettor make, I believe it is indeed Pierburg.
_________________
From the VW stable:
1982 Golf 1 3-door
1972 1600 Beetle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
TornadoRed06
Samba Member


Joined: August 30, 2020
Posts: 191
Location: Porto - Portugal
TornadoRed06 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 3:36 pm    Post subject: Re: 1982 Golf 1300cc starting trouble after standing long Reply with quote

I have been reading this with close attention even though I don't have any comparable car like this one at hand.
I still don't know 'how experienced with this car' you are, but any starter that has to run continuously for longer than 10 seconds will end sooner than his Project Engineers designed it for... no matter if they were japanese or german.

Also, if your suspicion of initial fuel starving doesn't pan out, what in fact happens this way is overload of the starter and spark-plug & cylinder chamber wash with unburned fuel. When you crank continuously for a minute, do you ever feel any gasoline smell around? If you don't, you are in fact with initial fuel starvation.

I mentioned it before, but used a 'not so good word'- tank. In fact, I was refering to a fuel reservoir, I suspect your model also uses one ( a small receptacle that stores some amount of fuel) it will be located nearby the carburetor body and is interconected with the inline fuel filter and the fuel pump at the head of the engine. Does your car have one fitted?

And do yourself a favor, before atempting to cold start the car again, instead, start to open the bonnet and unclip the air filter cover. You even don't need to remove the air filter, but does it get any fuel squirt comming out of the enrichment tube when you try swinging the throttle with the tip of a screwdriver?

And, I also hope you are running appropriate spark-plugs for the engine, none of this modern crap special tips new materials that any current vendor just knows to sell. That engine was engineered more than 40 years ago, so, just use 40-year specification crap because it is the best one! Modern fuels are already enough as a necessary pain.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ElStiemo
Samba Member


Joined: August 12, 2021
Posts: 59
Location: Windhoek, Namibia
ElStiemo is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 1982 Golf 1300cc starting trouble after standing long Reply with quote

Hello again -
The carburettor is a Keihin. I am not a very technical person. The car does not get driven regularly, as we do have a number of other cars. But my wife would like to drive it more, and would, if it weren't so difficult to start...

I cannot smell any fuel when cranking the car, also there are no visible fuel leaks. I am still at the assumption of initial fuel starvation.

I don't know of any such fuel reservoir between the pump and the carb / fuel filter. I will check again tomorrow and also check for fuel coming out of the enrichment tube.

Will revert back.
_________________
From the VW stable:
1982 Golf 1 3-door
1972 1600 Beetle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
TornadoRed06
Samba Member


Joined: August 30, 2020
Posts: 191
Location: Porto - Portugal
TornadoRed06 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 5:01 am    Post subject: Re: 1982 Golf 1300cc starting trouble after standing long Reply with quote

Hi,

Aaaahh... Keihin. It sounds so sour, not much kraut (and I made a lame joke - sauerkraut)

Do you know the correct specification for your car? (engine code/transmission/carburetor)

At this distance, I expect your particular car could be a South-Africa Uitenhage made vehicle, not a Wolfsbourg one. As such, some local content and vehicle specification deviations are expected, but I have a feeling that at that time, the complete powertrain was still german made and as such, the carburetor is most expected to be of the same suppliers as the ones found on Wolfsbourg made cars, although some other periferics like starters and generators might have been sourced from alternative approved suppliers for South Africa. In europe, Keihin carburetors seem to have been paired just for very specific markets, where different emission standards were in effect and also paired with automatics.

Learning about all what you have been saying and considering that this car may have been in your possesion not for a long time, it is highly probable that either during its life it had a carburetor issue or more recently someone had to make it roadworthy and sourcing/fixing a correct carburetor proved not as easy/affordable so a cobble it toghether & pile up solution had been temporarily found around a Keihin unit?
My feeling also points that at this moment you have a carburetor issue, soon or not so soon you also might have a starter problem and Lord knows what else other increased/accelerated issues will come up if this Keihin carburetor stays this way for longer in your car.

Do you have pictures of your car here at The Samba?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
TornadoRed06
Samba Member


Joined: August 30, 2020
Posts: 191
Location: Porto - Portugal
TornadoRed06 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 1982 Golf 1300cc starting trouble after standing long Reply with quote

At last, I managed to find a time to browse through both the Volkswagenwerk Golf I Workshop Manual (1976) and Bentley Workshop Manual (1980 trough 1984 - US specification) laying around here, and this is the most relevant data I can share with you:

1.1L engines (typ FA, FJ) - Solex 31 PICT-5 and 34 PICT-5 carburetors
1.5L engines (typ FB, FH) - Solex 34 PICT-5 carburetor
1.5L engine typ FD - Pierburg 2B2 carburetor
1.5L engine typ FX - Solex 34 PICT-5 carburetor
1.6L engines (typ FT, FP) - Solex 34 PICT-5 carburetor
1.6L engine typ FR - Pierburg 2B2 carburetor

Solex 31 PICT-5 carburetor fitted to 1.1L engine paired to Manual Gearbox: VW part 036 129 015 A
Solex 34 PICT-5 carburetor fitted to 1.1L engine paired to Manual Gearbox: VW part 036 129 015 and 036 129 015 B
Solex 34 PICT-5 carburetor fitted to 1.5L engine paired to Manual Gearbox: VW part 055 129 015 D and 055 129 015 K
Solex 34 PICT-5 carburetor fitted to 1.6L engine paired to Manual Gearbox: VW part 055 129 015 S
Pierburg 2B2 carburetor fitted to 1.5L engine paired to Manual Gearbox: VW part 055 129 017 and 055 129 017 P
Pierburg 2B2 carburetor fitted to 1.6L engine paired to Manual Gearbox: VW part 055 129 017 T

As we can see, this data above doesn't cover all powertrain combinations that were made available at the time for the Golf I but, nevertheless, it is necessary to clear out if this car we are troubleshooting is a Uitenhage or Wolfsburg build.

It is mentioned 1982 Golf. Is it MY1981 VIN or MY1982 VIN, meaning the VIN 10th position character is B-1981 Model Year or C-1982 Model Year?
The VIN 11th position character is U-Uitenhage or W-Wolfsburg?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
TornadoRed06
Samba Member


Joined: August 30, 2020
Posts: 191
Location: Porto - Portugal
TornadoRed06 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 1982 Golf 1300cc starting trouble after standing long Reply with quote

Hi!
Any good luck ironing out this issue yet?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Water-cooled VW All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.