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Missing original engine does same year make any diff in value?
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coolairX2
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:22 am    Post subject: Missing original engine does same year make any diff in value? Reply with quote

The original engine for my 50 deluxe Beetle ragtop has been lost to the ages. But it currently has a nice unstamped magnesium case 36hp+ with Okrassa not WW engine that I built 15 years ago. It still runs nice and strong. I have the opportunity to get a 1950 Alloy engine from a few months earlier. Would this make any difference at all in resale price if/when I decide to sell it. It still has the original ragtop and fenders, pan, crash case and interior is done as period. It isn't an example of originality as I did change the color though I have considered repainting to its original color.
Do I bother or is this just wasted money?
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splitjunkie
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:41 am    Post subject: Re: Missing original engine does same year make any diff in value? Reply with quote

It really depends on a potential buyer. The Okrassa engine, especially if it's an original and in tip top mechanical condition, might be more valuable to some buyers whereas and period correct, yet not numbers matching aluminum case engine might be more valuable. Then again, you haven't disclosed how correct the '50 engine is, what kind of mechanical condition it's in and how much the price is. All those would factor in.

If it needs a rebuild, that will be expensive depending on what it needs and if you have to pay someone to build it, that will be even more. Missing parts can add up $$$ really quickly so all of that would have to be added to the purchase price of the engine before you can determine the final price. If you can sell the Okrassa for a fair price you can factor that in but there are too many variables and not enough information on the '50 engine to give you an answer.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:02 am    Post subject: Re: Missing original engine does same year make any diff in value? Reply with quote

agree with splitjunkie, a lot of variables there. however I would say grab the 50 engine, assuming it's value for money, while you can. even if you do nothing with it you could then offer it with the car as a package when you sell it, or if the buyer was only wanting the car with okrasa you can sell the 50 engine on its own. these items aren't going down in price or getting easier to find...
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coolairX2
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:44 am    Post subject: Re: Missing original engine does same year make any diff in value? Reply with quote

Thanks for the input. I should correct my original post it was just the case not the whole engine. I do have some various internal 25hp engine parts and seamed fan shroud and heater tin and oil filler, and a couple of original solex pic 34 carbs etc.

The block is basically 1400usd. If I do build it up it I might use some WW parts which I suppose might kill the value somewhat. I would probably take the current Okrasa and shift it to my Ghia and sell off the Judson kit in that and keep that engine as a spare.

I would build the engine myself so the cost would be parts and machining. Even so it will be many thousands to get it done.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:46 am    Post subject: Re: Missing original engine does same year make any diff in value? Reply with quote

finster wrote:
agree with splitjunkie, a lot of variables there. however I would say grab the 50 engine, assuming it's value for money, while you can. even if you do nothing with it you could then offer it with the car as a package when you sell it, or if the buyer was only wanting the car with okrasa you can sell the 50 engine on its own. these items aren't going down in price or getting easier to find...


I agree and almost said the same, except we still don't know anything about the engine in question. It could be a corroded long block that has all 36hp parts on it and the seller wants $30K for it.

But if it is reasonably priced, in rebuildable shape and has most of the 25hp parts, definitely buy it.. Post pictures here first if you can first.
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coolairX2
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:15 am    Post subject: Re: Missing original engine does same year make any diff in value? Reply with quote

It is just the case which looks good and seems mic out as std and not already machined. I am asking for better resolution pics but it looks rebuildable not cheap though at 1.4k
Even though I have some of my own 25hp parts it would require buying a bunch of parts.
Early cases don't come up for sale often pretty sure I will never get one closer though. The case for sale engine numbers starts with 190... and my case should be 200.. so it is a few months earlier.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:19 am    Post subject: Re: Missing original engine does same year make any diff in value? Reply with quote

finster wrote:
agree with splitjunkie, a lot of variables there. however I would say grab the 50 engine, assuming it's value for money, while you can. even if you do nothing with it you could then offer it with the car as a package when you sell it, or if the buyer was only wanting the car with okrasa you can sell the 50 engine on its own. these items aren't going down in price or getting easier to find...


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Missing original engine does same year make any diff in value? Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice.

Just when I thought I would never see an engine # closer than my missing engine one is posted today from the same Month July 50 a 1-0218xxx and mine should be 1-0214xxx. Not sure I want to spend 8k but it is complete.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2481313
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Missing original engine does same year make any diff in value? Reply with quote

Either way it's a lot of money. The 8k for the complete correct engine might not raise the value of the car by 8K when the time comes to sell. On the other hand, having a correct year engine case to go with the car, makes it easier for a buyer to think about making it original.
FWIW, I have picked up the correct case to go with my 56 ragtop, just to have it. The next owner can build it off they want to.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:07 am    Post subject: Re: Missing original engine does same year make any diff in value? Reply with quote

it's only money... Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:52 am    Post subject: Re: Missing original engine does same year make any diff in value? Reply with quote

My opinion is the majority probably doesn't want to drive a 25hp in regular traffic whereas a stock 36hp keeps up just fine, and bonus points for the Okrasa.

Of course always cool to have the right engine, but I'd only do it if it was a screaming deal.

I'm building an Aug 50 and will be running a 36hp, even though I know about a local 25hp a guy has in his stash.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:30 am    Post subject: Re: Missing original engine does same year make any diff in value? Reply with quote

With rare exceptions, these cars are not worth enough, or rare enough, that "numbers matching" really makes much difference in today's value. You see it in ads but it adds little or nothing.

Over time this may slowly change, so if you are keeping this for investment or sale (a sketchy proposition), I'd keep the older case/engine and store it properly, and put a more modern version for "daily driving" if that's its use in the meantime. The engine may be worth more in the car later, but probably not any time soon.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Missing original engine does same year make any diff in value? Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
With rare exceptions, these cars are not worth enough, or rare enough, that "numbers matching" really makes much difference in today's value. You see it in ads but it adds little or nothing.

Over time this may slowly change, so if you are keeping this for investment or sale (a sketchy proposition), I'd keep the older case/engine and store it properly, and put a more modern version for "daily driving" if that's its use in the meantime. The engine may be worth more in the car later, but probably not any time soon.


Money, maybe not. But if I had a choice between two similar cars... one with the matching number engine, I'd choose it in a heartbeat over the other. I can always buy okrassa stuff, can't likely ever buy the original engine..
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Missing original engine does same year make any diff in value? Reply with quote

fwiw id rather have the correct engine with my rickety old golf cart of a car. ill probably put a 36 in the bug first cause its easier but you better believe that my long term goals are to have a 25 in there.

i have no intention of daily driving mine. i have a modern car for that. probably wont take them off residential roads very often. i have zero interest in driving something so archaic in highway traffic.

there are no amount of modifications that will make me feel safe driving a split vw on the highway. my lawnmower has better safety features.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: Missing original engine does same year make any diff in value? Reply with quote

None of my many old VWs have the original engines and yet, I pay-dearly for them - my old 1950 11G, had the original 25 and when it died, I put in an old 36 - still brought over $40K - my '55 has a 1958, 36 and my '64 Ghia, a 1968 bus 1500 - And yes, a few guys insist on original everything - z
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5/50, pastel green 11G - SOLD
8/50, gray 11A Beetle
6/52, pastel green 11C - SOLD
11/4/52, black Zwitter - SOLD to my little bro.
1954 Porsche, pre A, with VW 36 horse- SOLD
1/54, black 11C Beetle - TRADED
2/55 Iceland green Beetle, on a 1965 pan
3/55 113 Beetle, stratos silver
1955 Messerschmitt KR175 - SOLD, sadly
1960 single cab
1962 SO33, with SO 42 interior
9/63 Pacific blue, Ghia
'87 Toyota MR2
'02 WestFORDia E-150, GAVE TO OUR SON

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coolairX2
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:36 am    Post subject: Re: Missing original engine does same year make any diff in value? Reply with quote

Of course anyone given the choice between two similar cars would choose the one with the original engine. But I will never have the original engine so the question really is does a same year engine offer any value.

It seems that it may not be worth it considering i have a very nice original Okrasa engine in it anyway.

Now if the consensus was that it increased the value of my car by say thousands it may be worth it to buy it and stash it and or build it up but that is going to cost a bunch of thousands.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Missing original engine does same year make any diff in value? Reply with quote

does a non-matching period correct engine add value? no. Does the original matching? yes.

in your position, I would not buy that case for $1500 (price is too high anyway) because that case and all the other correct 25hp parts would cost equal to, or MORE, than the value they'd add.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Missing original engine does same year make any diff in value? Reply with quote

If the case is new buy it.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:51 am    Post subject: Re: Missing original engine does same year make any diff in value? Reply with quote

Following this thread, I realized that the engine numbers shown in the Technical Section of TheSamba are not the last number of the month, but the first. This applies at least to July 1950 and February 1952.
My engine was built on July 3rd of 1950 and has the number -1-0218252-.
According to the list, this would be an August number.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Missing original engine does same year make any diff in value? Reply with quote

kalymnos wrote:

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that date stamp is the casting date for the part (111 101 101). the other engine half (111 101 102) will probably have a different date stamp. i believe they were numbered when the engine was built which would be later on.

is there a thread somewhere about the different type faces or fonts used for engine serial numbers? there seem to be quite a few different ones. i have yet to see numbers as poorly kearned as what we are seeing on the case above. maybe someone took a long lunch that day........
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