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Syncro transaxle shifts "slower" than 2WD transaxle
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Why the Syncro is more difficult to shift than 2WD Reply with quote

How a trans is built has a lot to do with how it will shift. i.e. were the new syncros 'fitted' to each gear or just 'installed'?

Is the Doka 2wd or Syncro?

Yes 202 should shift easier than 210 which is like mud. But good mud. Wink
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E1
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Why the Syncro is more difficult to shift than 2WD Reply with quote

Pcforno wrote:
When my trans is cold, I double clutch and rev match until it’s warmed up

^^^ This ^^^

Whether warm or cold, on every trans, every time. 👍🏼
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Jake de Villiers
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:33 am    Post subject: Re: Why the Syncro is more difficult to shift than 2WD Reply with quote

My 5 speed ACW definitely shifts more slowly than either of the four speeds I have here. It feels more 'truck-like' than the DU transaxle and requires the one-two shifting that my father's International dump truck wanted.

I often double-clutch when its cold as the Swepco 210 is super thick at low temps.
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designer
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Why the Syncro is more difficult to shift than 2WD Reply with quote

This is kinda long, but i'm over it. . . I don't think this is syncro vs. 2wd, but. . .

so on the shifting line ... with my syncro, I have more times than not had trouble shifting. I mean, it's just a pain. I put an RS Fab on in the 10degree weather today and was hoping for a massive improvement.

I can see the potential there, honestly, felt really good when i got everything into each gear (which didn't happen effortlessly) so this leads me to think there are other issues at hand.

How come, when i'm in Reverse, I can seemingly shift the entire pattern and not get out of Reverse? Seems like that is a characteristic of each gear if I can find them all. I really had to put a lot of effort into getting out of reverse. And 3rd. Goodness.

Last time i fine tuned the front and rear shift rods, shifting was perfect. wondering if I should red loc-tite the clamp? That seems like a bad idea.

Also looking to replace the Rear Bushing at the Support plate assembly. Could that be it?

Or would not enough grease at the Lever/Shift Lever union be an issue? My boot is cashed and barely there.

Any insight here would be greatly appreciated. So over it.

Thanks!

-cc-
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: Why the Syncro is more difficult to shift than 2WD Reply with quote

designer wrote:
. I don't think this is syncro vs. 2wd, but. . .


You're right, this is an external linkage problem.

It's not related to the added weight of the Syncro granny gear (which is internal to the Syncro transaxle).
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tarandusVDub
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Syncro transaxle shifts "slower" than 2WD transaxle Reply with quote

Thank you Sodo and crew, this has been very helpful. My syncro doka would barely shift when i got it. Installed Big Shot, new shift linkage ball assembly on tranny, ran through all the clutch cylinders, and replaced the clutch pedal as it had a worn pin, new gear oil, etc. It shifts a lot better now, but still have to dig really low to shift properly. I was hoping to achieve the shifting bliss that I get from my 2WD Westy, but no luck.

3rd has been the main question mark as it would crunch a bit going in, even after all that work to system. But this has helped me understand better what is happening inside the magic box, and my shifting this weekend has been much, much better.

I thank you, and my gear box thanks you.
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loki475
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Syncro transaxle shifts "slower" than 2WD transaxle Reply with quote

I daily drive my syncro. Rebuilt the tranny myself last winter. I agree that quality of the build is everything. Things skipped are noticeable.

Besides that, the whole shift shaft assembly needs to be perfect. Including the depth the shift ball sits in the cup (adjusted via shift shaft bushing vertical positioning). This dictates how far it throws the selector arm in the tranny.

Im not a fan of the short shift kits either since they mess with the geometry incorrectly. Shifting into and out of gear is shortened but moving across from 2nd to 3rd is lengthened since its a twisting motion on the shift shaft that controls the shift selector.
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tarandusVDub
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:20 am    Post subject: Re: Syncro transaxle shifts "slower" than 2WD transaxle Reply with quote

loki475 wrote:
I daily drive my syncro. Rebuilt the tranny myself last winter. I agree that quality of the build is everything. Things skipped are noticeable.

Besides that, the whole shift shaft assembly needs to be perfect. Including the depth the shift ball sits in the cup (adjusted via shift shaft bushing vertical positioning). This dictates how far it throws the selector arm in the tranny.

Im not a fan of the short shift kits either since they mess with the geometry incorrectly. Shifting into and out of gear is shortened but moving across from 2nd to 3rd is lengthened since its a twisting motion on the shift shaft that controls the shift selector.


Great description. So if I'm getting a little grinding into 3rd, could I improve that with adjusting the depth of the shift ball to fine tune the selector? The same setup on my 2WD is much tighter and shifting into 3rd is very smooth and consistent. Even though the transmissions are different, the shifting action should be adjustable in the same way, no?
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 1:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Syncro transaxle shifts "slower" than 2WD transaxle Reply with quote

tarandusVDub wrote:
So if I'm getting a little grinding into 3rd


I think you should be able to tell if the shifter is adjusted by the feel (when parked, for example). There is nothing different from a 2WD WRT the shifting mechanism.

Agreed this is peripherally related to the subject of "Syncro transaxle shifts "slower" than 2WD transaxle" because you have a 2wd right there to compare to. Wink

Grinding going into 3rd suggests bleeding the clutch?
Higher up the line is a clutch disk or pressure-plate problem.
And higher yet is,,,,, a problem with the 3rd gear Synchronizer specifically. Crying or Very sad
And if that's the case, it's time to learn to double-clutch and live with it.
If the trans is recently rebuilt, there is 'warranty' but that's not a simple deal.
It's possible that it could 'wear in'.

And then there's the dreaded, cracked 3rd/4th hub.
Discussing hub or other hardware problem could drive this thread off-topic.
But when other members might arrive on this thread hoping to solve the same problem and appreciate your post.
Sorry I don't know of any other threads to recommend for grinding into 3rd other than searching for "3rd/4th slider hub cracking".
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....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
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tarandusVDub
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Syncro transaxle shifts "slower" than 2WD transaxle Reply with quote

Sodo wrote:
tarandusVDub wrote:
So if I'm getting a little grinding into 3rd


I think you should be able to tell if the shifter is adjusted by the feel (when parked, for example). There is nothing different from a 2WD WRT the shifting mechanism.

Agreed this is peripherally related to the subject of "Syncro transaxle shifts "slower" than 2WD transaxle" because you have a 2wd right there to compare to. Wink

Grinding going into 3rd suggests bleeding the clutch?
Higher up the line is a clutch disk or pressure-plate problem.
And higher yet is,,,,, a problem with the 3rd gear Synchronizer specifically. Crying or Very sad
And if that's the case, it's time to learn to double-clutch and live with it.
If the trans is recently rebuilt, there is 'warranty' but that's not a simple deal.
It's possible that it could 'wear in'.

And then there's the dreaded, cracked 3rd/4th hub.
Discussing hub or other hardware problem could drive this thread off-topic.
But when other members might arrive on this thread hoping to solve the same problem and appreciate your post.
Sorry I don't know of any other threads to recommend for grinding into 3rd other than searching for "3rd/4th slider hub cracking".


The clutch Master and Slave are new, and it's been bled several times. I can check it again tho. I think the clutch disk itself is good ~ no other indications its not. I'll try different shifting positions to see if that makes a difference. Also, did the 3rd/4th hub problem get fixed in the later years or not? Mine is a November 1990 build. And yes, I can compare to the 2WD in my cozy garage this winter! Smile
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