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viiking Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2013 Posts: 2666 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:27 am Post subject: Re: Roman’s Rust Bucket ('67 Beetle) |
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I'd have that roof down to bare metal in under an hour using my stripper and stainless steel wool I mentioned a few post back. Clean as a whistle! _________________ 1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3 |
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rstrobel Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2018 Posts: 217 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: Roman’s Rust Bucket ('67 Beetle) |
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viiking wrote: |
I'd have that roof down to bare metal in under an hour using my stripper and stainless steel wool I mentioned a few post back. Clean as a whistle! |
Wow, that's impressive! I found someone who is privately selling some methylene chloride stripper, so I will purchase 3 gallons (11 Liters) from him.
How much methylene chloride stripper is needed for a beetle that has only had one respray? _________________ 1967 VW Beetle
1993 VW Cabriolet
My 67 build thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=716767
•(__)•
(O\!/O) <--- supposed to look like a beetle |
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viiking Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2013 Posts: 2666 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:15 pm Post subject: Re: Roman’s Rust Bucket ('67 Beetle) |
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As I said, try a small section at a time. Say a foot by a foot. Put the stripper on, wait 5 minutes max then start with the stainless steel scrubber. You'll soon get the hang of it. You don't have to wait until the paint bubbles. Wait too long and the stuff gets too dry and won't work. As the paint comes off and takes you back to bare metal, wash the scrubber in water to get rid of the crud. You can wash the whole surface with the water to remove the crud off the car. Yes remember it might flash rust, but make sure it is dry when you are finished.
Yes your hands get a bit sore from the scrubbing, but it is less work than using that hot air gun.
Just to clarify what I use as a scrubber. There are stainless steel pot scrubbers that are made with long strands of stainless steel off cut in a sort of a ball. Maybe 3mm wide strands. No soap, just the flat wire. I'm sure you can get it at your supermarket.
PS. It works really well where the surface is not flat i.e.has indentations on it, like the rear package tray. Try using a flat scraper to do that! No way. _________________ 1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3 |
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viiking Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2013 Posts: 2666 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:19 pm Post subject: Re: Roman’s Rust Bucket ('67 Beetle) |
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rstrobel wrote: |
viiking wrote: |
I'd have that roof down to bare metal in under an hour using my stripper and stainless steel wool I mentioned a few post back. Clean as a whistle! |
Wow, that's impressive! I found someone who is privately selling some methylene chloride stripper, so I will purchase 3 gallons (11 Liters) from him.
How much methylene chloride stripper is needed for a beetle that has only had one respray? |
I've used from memory 2 maybe 3 gallons to get the inside, underneath and outside cleaned including inside the doors. That is, there's NO paint left anywhere on the vehicle. _________________ 1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3 |
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rstrobel Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2018 Posts: 217 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:43 am Post subject: Re: Roman’s Rust Bucket ('67 Beetle) |
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viiking wrote: |
rstrobel wrote: |
viiking wrote: |
I'd have that roof down to bare metal in under an hour using my stripper and stainless steel wool I mentioned a few post back. Clean as a whistle! |
Wow, that's impressive! I found someone who is privately selling some methylene chloride stripper, so I will purchase 3 gallons (11 Liters) from him.
How much methylene chloride stripper is needed for a beetle that has only had one respray? |
I've used from memory 2 maybe 3 gallons to get the inside, underneath and outside cleaned including inside the doors. That is, there's NO paint left anywhere on the vehicle. |
Okay! Thank you! Did you have to use water to neutralize it once you were done? If so, my concern is that the water could get on unprotected metal and cause rust again. _________________ 1967 VW Beetle
1993 VW Cabriolet
My 67 build thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=716767
•(__)•
(O\!/O) <--- supposed to look like a beetle |
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viiking Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2013 Posts: 2666 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:06 pm Post subject: Re: Roman’s Rust Bucket ('67 Beetle) |
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I washed the bits with hot water and some “degreaser”. If you dry the surface afterwards you will minimise flash rusting.
You can use a number of methods to prevent flash rust including Ospho.
Have a read of Ray Greenwood’s reply in the Body forum on this. I’m a chemist but he knows this subject expertly.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=650161 _________________ 1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3 |
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rstrobel Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2018 Posts: 217 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
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Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:32 am Post subject: Re: Roman’s Rust Bucket ('67 Beetle) |
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viiking wrote: |
I washed the bits with hot water and some “degreaser”. If you dry the surface afterwards you will minimise flash rusting.
You can use a number of methods to prevent flash rust including Ospho.
Have a read of Ray Greenwood’s reply in the Body forum on this. I’m a chemist but he knows this subject expertly.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=650161 |
That is exactly the thread I was looking for! Thank you! _________________ 1967 VW Beetle
1993 VW Cabriolet
My 67 build thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=716767
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(O\!/O) <--- supposed to look like a beetle |
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rstrobel Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2018 Posts: 217 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
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Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2022 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: Roman’s Rust Bucket ('67 Beetle) |
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After looking at strippers a little more, I decided to go on FB Marketplace to see if anyone was selling the good aircraft stripper...sure enough, about 4 hours north of me, a gentleman was selling some old cans (from 2015-2018). Some had rust holes, so I will be using that stripper first. Even with rust holes in the can, it still had enough DCM to do the trick.
Within 15min, the paint bubbled up and was removable.
I noticed a rust hole in the bumper bracket, so I knew there was more where that came from. As such, I removed the bumper brackets. As you will see, this led me on a rabbit hole, where I ended up disassembling the whole rear clip.
I took measurements, before cutting anything, so that I knew where the old bumper bracket was located.
After this, I disassembled the bumper bracket (from the wrecked beetle) and held it up with clamps and self tappers.
I don't have it pictured here, but I ended up sandblasting the rear clip.
I then removed the luggage tray area, as I have a "new piece" (from the wrecked beetle) that I will weld in.
Now, it was time to disassemble the entire rear clip...boy that was a long process, but there was a lot of rust, so I am glad that I did it.
A few more panels to go!
Tada, mission complete, time to sandblast each panel.
_________________ 1967 VW Beetle
1993 VW Cabriolet
My 67 build thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=716767
•(__)•
(O\!/O) <--- supposed to look like a beetle |
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Ceckert64 Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2015 Posts: 1931 Location: Manitowoc, WI
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rstrobel Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2018 Posts: 217 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2022 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Roman’s Rust Bucket ('67 Beetle) |
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Ceckert64 wrote: |
Great work!
For the paint stripper, I have used a weak citristrip and it helped a lot to cover it with Saran Wrap. If your having any issues getting stuff up I bet that’d help it too. |
Thank you!
So far I am very pleased with the Aircraft Stripper. However, I am worried about the water flushing/neutralization process. I am going to do a little bit of research to see what the best way is to remove the stripper.
I assume that it would be fine if I wash the car with water and then let it dry in the hot sun. _________________ 1967 VW Beetle
1993 VW Cabriolet
My 67 build thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=716767
•(__)•
(O\!/O) <--- supposed to look like a beetle |
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viiking Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2013 Posts: 2666 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: Roman’s Rust Bucket ('67 Beetle) |
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Just re-read Ray Greenwood’s link I posted. He has all the answers. _________________ 1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3 |
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rstrobel Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2018 Posts: 217 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2022 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: Roman’s Rust Bucket ('67 Beetle) |
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viiking wrote: |
Just re-read Ray Greenwood’s link I posted. He has all the answers. |
That was a very helpful read, thank you for reminding me of it. I guess I will always have the fear of using water on bare metal.
It seems like he is suggesting to...use solvent-->wash with soap and water-->use solvent again and let dry.
I have a while before it is time to strip the whole car, so I'll cross that bridge when I get there. _________________ 1967 VW Beetle
1993 VW Cabriolet
My 67 build thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=716767
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(O\!/O) <--- supposed to look like a beetle |
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viiking Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2013 Posts: 2666 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: Roman’s Rust Bucket ('67 Beetle) |
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It’s not the wetting with water that is the problem. It’s the leaving it wet to allow the rusting process to start. Remove the water and dry completely and the reaction essentially stops. Ditto with high humidity. Don’t let dew fall onto the bare metal. Keep it warm if possible.
What you must not do is touch it with your bare hands once the steel is bare.
The other thing I have done very successfully is to wrap bare metal parts like fenders hoods etc with stretch wrap. That is, the stuff they put around products to keep them attached to a pallet. You should be able to buy a roll from the big box stores. Just wrap around the object multiple times to keep it contained.
You wrap them well and they just don’t seem to flash rust. I’ve even had some plastic lying on the top of the bonnet and the unexposed bits have just a tiny bit of flash starting after a year but underneath is perfect.
In addition I’ve posted elsewhere that spraying the surface with WD40 lightly is used by a Concours winner for 356 Porsches here in Oz. Back to bare metal and lightly oil it if it’s going to be months/years before you paint. Use mineral spirits etc to remove the oily WD40 followed by acetone changing rags regularly. People will chime in here and say WD40 will cause fish-eyes but it does NOT because it doesn’t contain silicones. However you do have to spend the time to clean properly like you would do for any paint job. _________________ 1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3 |
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rstrobel Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2018 Posts: 217 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
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Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:23 am Post subject: Re: Roman’s Rust Bucket ('67 Beetle) |
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Good information! Thank you!
I think it should be fine if I wash it off, dry it with towels, and let it sit in the hot sun for a day. I just have to be careful to not get any water in the cracks...where it does not dry quickly. _________________ 1967 VW Beetle
1993 VW Cabriolet
My 67 build thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=716767
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(O\!/O) <--- supposed to look like a beetle |
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rstrobel Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2018 Posts: 217 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: Roman’s Rust Bucket ('67 Beetle) |
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After a break...that was quite long...I am finally getting back to working on my car.
After burning through one too many times, I decided to stop being lazy. Time to start making a patch panel...
I finished welding it in, but forgot to take a picture...
Next, it was time to take care of the little things that the rear clip needed. First up, welding the fender nuts in.
While I had the bumper mounts off, I replaced the rusted nut plate with thick steel. Again, no picture of the final product...
Once complete, I shifted my focus towards cleaning up/repairing all other rear clip pieces.
I'll be using the rear C-channel from a donor clip...bending it myself would be a little risky, as it would be hard to avoid kinks. Once removed, sand blasted, and primed, I'll spot weld it onto my rear clip.
A short break to clean my mess up...
While waiting on the epoxy primer to ship, I removed the weather strip channels. I am glad I did...there was a significant amount of rust lurking underneath.
For some motivation and test fitting, I held the rear apron in place with vice grips.
Part of the test fitting includes the original donor luggage tray. It had a few rust holes that I had to fix.
A little sand blasting and weld through primer...
While grinding down the welds, the grinder slipped and decided to leave a mark on me.
Before welding the rear clip together, I decided to re-address my doors. Somehow they started sagging again. This time I'll use the turn buckle method.
_________________ 1967 VW Beetle
1993 VW Cabriolet
My 67 build thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=716767
•(__)•
(O\!/O) <--- supposed to look like a beetle |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69733 Location: Phoenix Metro
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viiking Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2013 Posts: 2666 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 10:46 pm Post subject: Re: Roman’s Rust Bucket ('67 Beetle) |
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Ouch indeed. Bandaging looks very like an Emergency Room job.
Great that you have got so far with the body but ouch those fingers. I’ve had a few cuts myself and now wear at least a thick glove on the hand holding the piece. The number of sluts in that leather glove attests to how many times I’ve miscalculated with my grinder. _________________ 1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3 |
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rstrobel Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2018 Posts: 217 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Roman’s Rust Bucket ('67 Beetle) |
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viiking wrote: |
Ouch indeed. Bandaging looks very like an Emergency Room job.
Great that you have got so far with the body but ouch those fingers. I’ve had a few cuts myself and now wear at least a thick glove on the hand holding the piece. The number of slits in that leather glove attests to how many times I’ve miscalculated with my grinder. |
Yeah, this was a good lesson to wear gloves. I got it stitched up, and it is healing quite well. _________________ 1967 VW Beetle
1993 VW Cabriolet
My 67 build thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=716767
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rstrobel Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2018 Posts: 217 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Roman’s Rust Bucket ('67 Beetle) |
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Time for an update...
I decided to take the driver's side quarter panel off, since there were a few issues that I still wanted to fix.
Firstly, at some point in its life, the car was hit on the front driver's side. This resulted in the body to be tweaked in many areas.
As an example, the front "frunk floor" was pushed in ~1.5cm. I was able to straighten it out a little bit by using the Harbor Freight Stud Welder.
In these pictures, you can see how the right part is significantly higher than the left part
The damage extended across the entire front frunk floor. As such, I had to come up with another plan. I decided to use metal plates and sandwiched the body metal in between. I then welded "I Loops" on the plates and used a skid steer, excavator, and turn buckles to pull the metal out (shown in video below).
Here's the left side (not damaged)
And the right side for comparison (damaged)
Here is a before and after:
Before:
After:
I also had to extend and reshape this lip, so that it matches the other side. It turned out pretty well!
Once that was completed, I tackled the other small bits before the quarter panel is installed again.
Unfortunately, I didn't take too many pictures, but I finished up all of the small areas that needed to be addressed. I then sandblasted and painted the inner part of the "A pillar" (behind the quarter panel...aka the black hole).
Next, it was time to repair an original 1967 front clip.
After finishing the front clip, I welded in a new fender nut from a parts beetle that I have. I opted to do it this way, so that I keep the original indentation around the nut.
Back to the quarter panel...
Originally, it did not fit well at all. Here is a picture for reference:
I had to cut slits in the metal to allow some flexibility. Then, I had my brother use a crowbar to push out on the quarter panel, so that it fits along the drip channel nicely.
Once it fit, I tack welded it, so that it holds its shape. Again, I don't have a picture of the final product, but it fits much better. I also indented the top of the quarter panel, so that it removes the gap between the hood and quarter panel...as seen in the above picture ^.
Now that it sits higher, I had to lengthen the bottom, so that it is still in line with the door.
Once it fit just right, I welded a piece of metal in and ground it down. Next, I finished my repair on the lower part of the quarter panel.
Then I moved to the other side. It was the same procedure, but slightly different. I had to fabricate my own metal to fit the underside of the quarter panel. I do not have any fancy tools, so I made it out of multiple scrap pieces.
Then, I started to fit the rest of the panel. I wanted to have one complete panel before welding anything in, so that I am able to fit everything properly.
The finished product:
Front:
Back:
Starting to weld it in:
After finishing the passenger side, I cleaned up the mess that came with it.
Currently, I am waiting for my quarter panel to dry. Once that is finished, it'll be time to weld it on the car and start fitting the front clip! _________________ 1967 VW Beetle
1993 VW Cabriolet
My 67 build thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=716767
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toxicavenger70 Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2019 Posts: 869 Location: CO
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: Roman’s Rust Bucket ('67 Beetle) |
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Looking good! Keep the pics coming. They are a inspiration for me to get into the garage!!! lol |
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