Death foam replacement

[vamram]

It's still loud, just not as if the pillars we're empty.

I used rubberized undercoating as the final coat thinking that will prevent moisture from sitting against the metal. Which is what eventually happens with the factory foam, not so much that it absorbs moisture as that it traps it against the shell.
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'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
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[Synchromesh]

I see. Do you think an acoustical sealant would work here? Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/DAP-7079818165-Acoustical-S...&psc=1
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'72 Super Beetle sunroof sedan

[Tom K.]

If you opting for a spray expanding foam, then you can add it without cutting holes in your interiors. The factory sprayed the foam through small dime-sized holes from the interior. Those holes should still be there. You could first use a wand and spray metal protecting agents and then spray the foam.
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'91 Vanagon Westfalia
'70 Beetle Convertible
'71 Super Beetle Semi-Automatic: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714131&highlight=
'65 Ghia: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=762478&highlight=

[vamram]

[Synchromesh]

[boostretard]

From what I can tell I’ll need a chemical-based foam removal that doesn’t harm the harness or anything else.

Cutting (or rusting) holes in the car is not an option (problem 1), and filling it back up with more foam feels like a bigger gamble than it should be (problem 2)

I’ve read there are two OEM foams. The small sample I have from my car is from the engine compartment, a bit of overflow. It’s crusty and brittle and crumbles between my fingers with enough pressure. A drop of water indeed sits on top, but water does this sometimes on other materials too, like fine dry dirt. Like with dirt, if I force the water tension to break with finger contact and slight agitation it soaks in to the foam, so humidity and condensation are going to happen.

3M spray silicone (wet) soaks right into the foam like a paper towel. And about water, the product description includes:

“protecting against rust and corrosion; sealing out moisture”

So in theory with enough of that, maybe the factory foam could be rehabilitated. What would it take to flood that whole chamber? Just thinking moon shot ideas. I suspect that if I had a big chunk of that foam soaking it in a bucket of silicone it would just be a matter of time, like maple syrup invading a pancake. But where is the highest point of foam in the side of a beetle (“gravity feed” lol) and how to get a long (3-footer I have) spray straw up there?

If I had to remove the foam chemically tho… An Amazon reviewer said their testing showed the 3M didn’t dissolve styrofoam, like it’s rare to find this (their reason for liking it) So maybe I’ll try some non-3M spray silicone (different propellant/solvent) and see if that works.

The evercoat site states its foam is waterproof, but how much flex, vibration (air pulses from dual carbs, plus their fuel fumes), and time does it take to start chipping away at this? Will it just do what VW’s foam did? This upside/downside makes a silicone soak idea seem worth a serious look.

Anyone got a big chunk of crusty VW foam laying around?

[goober]

Silicone spray?

What does WD40 do? That's supposed to really hate water.

It sounds like you might be on to something.

I don't have the problem but I feel your pain.

[Tom K.]

[boostretard]

Yeah silicone spray. I don’t think it will evaporate with time like wd-40 will.

I’m still not sure which rubber seal or where it’s located. I can’t seem to find it on Wolfsburg West if it’s there.

On that point about the seal, I think it can be true in some cases in whole or part. From what I’ve seen in so many cutaway pics, death foam root cause is multi-variable, and condensation does do strange things, especially in humid climates. I live within 2 miles of the Pacific Ocean in a notoriously foggy city, observing every state of precipitation known (the kind that finds the frame horns under the car), and salt air is another consideration.

So I would assume it’s an inevitable problem, and I’d like to test some samples for absorption, water displacement, etc for feasibility of a broader application.

[Tom K.]

[boostretard]

Thanks Tom for the description.

Is this stuff, at the crescent bottom, the same seal? Pic is looking down toward the floor. Drivers side both pics.

I read somewhere there’s a drain here and after clearing debris found my poker tool’s marks in it. Oops… it’s crackly but not like the filler foam. Not sure if that dent is factory or not.

I can add sealer to this but yeah, no drain in sight:

Looks like the same material on the inner radius too (out of focus)?


This is the camera aimed rearward. Gonna look into a lighted camera probe for my phone. I think that may also be “the seal” toward bottom right?

I know I have rust on the passenger side, 3 inches from the lower right corner of the rear window, and suspect the window rubber (replacement en route). But it’s unclear how a leaking rubber would get water inside that compartment. Even with road crown the angle is wrong for the primer holes. Maybe the foam soaked upward and/or condensation.

I’ve also noticed fuel vapors seem to attract some kind of mold/moss (not just on my car). I’ve seen this both inside and outside the vents near the carbs. They do stink. Perhaps this and/or other fuel-related effects relate to the foam mystery.

[boostretard]

Or maybe the dent is the drain?

[Tom K.]

I never looked down through my crescent cavity for the seal - but your first picture shows it. So, yes, that is the seal!

In your second picture, yes - that looks like the seal again. I also notice that some of the factory sound-deadening foam expanded up into your crescent cavity! That would be the original point of failure!!! Caught red handed and on camera!!! If factory foam found its way out into the crescent cavity, then a hole existed there meaning the seal on your car was not properly placed (the seal was installed in the factory before the foam). That is where the rain water would get in because the foam was never intended to seal any crevasse or hole.

I find this all very exciting - finally the proof we all need.

IT ISN'T THE FOAM'S FAULT!!!

Slopping sealer along the bottom channel will seal it all up for you.
_________________
'91 Vanagon Westfalia
'70 Beetle Convertible
'71 Super Beetle Semi-Automatic: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714131&highlight=
'65 Ghia: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=762478&highlight=

[boostretard]

Very interesting… did you notice in the second pic the foam has pulled away a bit (just enough to trap water), but the seal has not? Makes me think that’s why VW chose a “flexible seal and foam” vs only “foam everywhere”. They may have identified chassis flex and/or foam shrink as an issue to bandaid.

So which seam sealer? I want double overkill.

Also, for the broader issues of rust on the other side of the car (one tiny hole I’m trying to put a lid on while the car is garaged) I’ve ordered an endoscope with multiple LEDs and two cameras on the tip. More to come these next days and weeks…

Still hoping someone’s got some spare foam I can test with. I’ll pay shipping!

[Tom K.]

I used this stuff after not putting too much thought into it.

I also sprayed Eastwood Internal Frame Coating throughout that inner cabinet. Then I sprayed a heave dose of Fluid Film. And then I inserted a plastic bag which was filled with modern foam (non saturating) from the can. With the seam sealer filling that channel, it ain't gonna rust in there.

But if you already have rust, then you might need to curt a circle from the inside (under the headliner) to treat it with OSPHO or similar first. Then maybe your external metal can be saved without opening the area from outside.
_________________
'91 Vanagon Westfalia
'70 Beetle Convertible
'71 Super Beetle Semi-Automatic: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714131&highlight=
'65 Ghia: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=762478&highlight=

[boostretard]

Ah ok thanks for the tips

Yeah rust is a big topic so I won’t go into it here but the only thing I’m conclusive on is cosmoline’s effectiveness, as a layer on top of something else (paint, undercoat, whatever). I’m undecided on my approach until I get better datums.

Check out these from Project Farm if u haven’t already:

https://youtu.be/Ag46YUovPUc

https://youtu.be/lyWHF4NoNVk

[Tom K.]

Interesting tests of various products. They did a three year test over in Europe, and this product performed the best. I bought a case. So far so good.

_________________
'91 Vanagon Westfalia
'70 Beetle Convertible
'71 Super Beetle Semi-Automatic: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714131&highlight=
'65 Ghia: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=762478&highlight=

[boostretard]

Nice
Where’d you find it for sale?
And is that the hose with the 360* spray tip? How long is it?

I’m thinking to use some jewelers drill bits to make a plastic straw version of the 360 tip, as the straw I have is like 3-4 feet.

Someone on Samba had a strong case for silicone lube in drain locations. It’s a Nissan branded product I finally found in FL it just arrived today and will be included into upcoming foam testing. Kinda hoping it can dissolve the foam.

[calvinater]

As carpenter using expanding foam, it has been my experience that once cured nothing ! Dissolves it!

Acetone will melt it away before curing, once cured nada.
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"Albatross"!

[Tom K.]