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joetiger Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005 Posts: 5078 Location: denver
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:17 am Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro |
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Schnippzle wrote: |
Excellent times! Just don't start imagining worrying noises |
The key is to have too many noises to keep track of.
4Gears4Tires wrote: |
Nice pic! I love to capture those reflection pictures as well. |
Me too. It looks more dangerous than it was...Crawling along in a construction zone on I-10 in Mississippi. _________________ Joe T.
'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32
"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron
"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond
Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present
www.josephtrussell.com |
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joetiger Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005 Posts: 5078 Location: denver
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Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro |
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Back from a Thanksgiving trip to New Orleans, flying not driving, and wish we had driven. Anyhoo, I had a few hours yesterday and, having amassed all the parts I think I need, decided to jump into springs and shocks.
Bilstein B6, Schwenk standard springs, rear LCA bushings, all new hardware.
Please note that I've done springs and shocks multiple times and on every van I've owned. The rears are a walk in the park. They are the easy end and I thought I'd ease into the project.
Pigpen had other plans.
The driver side required the use of every tool in the shed. The bottom shock bolt was fused to the shock bushing. Eventually it all came apart after torch, sawzall, and grinder.
(pay no mind to the u-joint on the impact wrench--it was a dumb idea.)
All back together.
The passenger side started off harmlessly enough. The bottom bolt came off easily; I had broken the original clean off a while back so that bolt was new. The spring came out as it should.
The top bolt, though. On the drivers side, I'd preemptively heated the bolt with a torch until things got nice and smoky, and it broke loose without issue. I used the same technique on the passenger side but it would not budge.
With the help of a cheater bar, it finally popped loose and will turn. However, the shock bushing is fused to the bolt.
I can't get the f**ker off. I tried everything I could think of yesterday and lost a perfectly good fingernail and a chunk of forearm in the process.
I think I need to get the shock out of there so I have some room to work on the bolt/shock bushing. My plan is to try to get the Dremel up there to cut across the round part of the shock and get the shock out of there so I can cut the bolt. Unless anybody has any better ideas?
What a hassle. Any suggestions are appreciated!
(I am aware that I'm working very near the fuel system. I will put protective coverings over the filler tube, vent line, and gas tank before the sparks start flying.) _________________ Joe T.
'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32
"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron
"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond
Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present
www.josephtrussell.com |
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4Gears4Tires Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018 Posts: 3054 Location: MD
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Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro |
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Sawzall and angle grinder. Cutting the shock off for space sounds good but be careful. I'd use a sawzall over a dremel. Wear full eye and respiratory protection in case you overheat/cut too deep and it comes out as a vapor. You don't want that in your respiratory system. A guy on the e30 forums years back cut his bumper shocks down (they're really high pressure) and it squirted/vaporized into his face. 6 months in the hospital. Nearly died.
When you say it's loose, you can rock it back and forth a quarter turn but no more because it's seized on to the bushing right? I'm surprised you can't force it to turn more because of the captured nut. Sounds similar to the trailing arms. I had to cut all 4 bolts off on both sides. PITA. _________________ '87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
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joetiger Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005 Posts: 5078 Location: denver
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Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro |
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4Gears4Tires wrote: |
Sawzall and angle grinder. Cutting the shock off for space sounds good but be careful. I'd use a sawzall over a dremel. Wear full eye and respiratory protection in case you overheat/cut too deep and it comes out as a vapor. You don't want that in your respiratory system. A guy on the e30 forums years back cut his bumper shocks down (they're really high pressure) and it squirted/vaporized into his face. 6 months in the hospital. Nearly died. |
Good advice, thanks. I can't get the sawzall up in there without damaging the bracket. There's so little space to work. I was thinking I might be able to wiggle the Dremel up there to cut the shock housing where it surrounds the bushing, then bend it loose.
4Gears4Tires wrote: |
When you say it's loose, you can rock it back and forth a quarter turn but no more because it's seized on to the bushing right? I'm surprised you can't force it to turn more because of the captured nut. Sounds similar to the trailing arms. I had to cut all 4 bolts off on both sides. PITA. |
Correct--the bolt turns along with the sleeve inside the rubber. The shock is just hanging there.
I had a similar experience with my last van and a front control arm bolt. I sawzalled the bolt off but in the process I damaged/weakened the bracket and it later broke. I'd like to avoid a similar fate.
_________________ Joe T.
'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32
"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron
"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond
Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present
www.josephtrussell.com |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15144 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro |
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honestly welding up/repairing that shock mount/tab is a farily easy thing to do once the shock is cut out
any grade/quality welder or welder work should suffice. there's little working load in the pull/down direction..
so don't fret it too much, get that sumbitch outta there and deal with the fix'n next
_________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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joetiger Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005 Posts: 5078 Location: denver
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Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro |
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Thank you, Gents, for the suggestions and moral support. It turns out all I needed was a shitty day back at work to cultivate some good, healthy anger. That and a few Dremel cutoff wheels, the grinder, and a crowbar made short work of it.
Scissors for the shock rubber
Exposed and easy to cut with the grinder.
Thankfully the captive nut was not damaged and I was able to bang the outer rim of the bracket, which had bent outwards a little, back in place with a BF hammer.
I'm sure the front will be nice and easy. _________________ Joe T.
'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32
"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron
"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond
Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present
www.josephtrussell.com |
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MsTaboo Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006 Posts: 4098 Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
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Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro |
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Good work! Did you use some anti-seize on the new bolts?
Start the fronts by soaking everything in PB Blaster overnight and use a decent spring compressor.
Front shocks/springs on a Syncro can be a bit of a pain if you haven't done them before. _________________ Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec
The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
Help the fight against Truth Decay.
Defend democracy, support Ukraine. |
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dkoesyncro Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2006 Posts: 983
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Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro |
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How do these Bilsteins compare to the OME? I'll be venturing down this road soon, currently I'm stock springs and OME. It works but I don't have anything to compare. |
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Escorial Syncro Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2004 Posts: 437 Location: Manitou Springs, CO
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Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:01 am Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro |
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dkoesyncro wrote: |
How do these Bilsteins compare to the OME? I'll be venturing down this road soon, currently I'm stock springs and OME. It works but I don't have anything to compare. |
Same for me, I had the same question. Also, where did you end up sourcing the Bilsteins?
Thanks
Joel _________________ Joel Lane
1985 Vanagon converted to syncro, ALH TDI, Reimo Primus top with Westy interior
2002 Toyota Tundra 4x4
1974 Honda CL360 Scrambler (for sale!) |
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joetiger Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005 Posts: 5078 Location: denver
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Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:38 am Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro |
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MsTaboo wrote: |
Good work! Did you use some anti-seize on the new bolts?
Start the fronts by soaking everything in PB Blaster overnight and use a decent spring compressor.
Front shocks/springs on a Syncro can be a bit of a pain if you haven't done them before. |
Thanks! I've been spraying all bolts with PB once a day for the past few weeks. I think it helped with the upper bolt on the driver's side rear shock. I've researched the procedure and sourced good spring compressors. I know it's a much different process than 2wd. I'm in no hurry, which makes the job much less stressful.
dkoesyncro wrote: |
How do these Bilsteins compare to the OME? I'll be venturing down this road soon, currently I'm stock springs and OME. It works but I don't have anything to compare. |
Escorial Syncro wrote: |
Same for me, I had the same question. Also, where did you end up sourcing the Bilsteins?
Thanks
Joel |
I couldn't find any OME's anywhere so Bilstein B6's were a bit of a (slightly more expensive) consolation prize. And while I prefer to use our vendors for everything possible, none of our guys had them in stock so I went to www.shocksurplus.com.
I also based the decision on a positive review from Alistair; he knows his stuff and I trust his impressions:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=759286&highlight=bilstein++b6
The OME's that I took off were, as you can see in the photos, VERY old. From the stack of records I got with this Syncro, I think they might have been installed around 2003. They compress with minimal effort, completely shot. So my review of the new setup will likely be positive because anything will be an improvement.
I've only been up and down the road a few times so far with the Bilsteins, but I can tell that along with the Schwenk springs, the back end is much firmer without being harsh. There's also a nasty series of light rail tracks by my house, uneven tracks/concrete, that are a good testing spot for new suspension bits. The improvement is very noticeable.
I won't have a full review until I get the fronts installed and can go out and bang around a bit. _________________ Joe T.
'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32
"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron
"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond
Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present
www.josephtrussell.com |
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sanchius Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2007 Posts: 1456 Location: IN
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joetiger Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005 Posts: 5078 Location: denver
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro |
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sanchius wrote: |
Well done, epic repair! Encountering the rare rust-stuck bolt like that really makes me feel for those who live in wetter/saltier regions. |
Thank you. I've gotten out of practice with rusted/fused/stuck bolts lately but I feel like I've gotten pretty good at it overall. This is what I get for buying a van sold new in Philadelphia and owned in upstate NY for the first part of its life.
Unrelated:
I was dropping off my daughter's schoolmate at her house yesterday afternoon and a silver Mercedes came around the side of my van, stopped, and blocked the street, hazards on.
A wild-eyed older lady jumped out of the passenger side and ran up to my passenger window. I was preparing for battle, believing that I was about to be improperly accused of some traffic offense. I told my daughter to roll down the window halfway.
The older lady pulled her mask down.
"I'M NOT CRAZY I JUST WANTED TO ASK HOW MUCH DOES ONE OF THESE COST? LIKE A NICE ONE THAT AN OLD LADY LIKE ME COULD DRIVE?"
"$30,000 for 2WD. This one is 4WD so a lot more."
"$30K? GOOD! I DON'T DRIVE IN THE SNOW DON'T CARE ABOUT FOUR WHEEL DRIVE! THANK YOU!"
With that, she ran back to her car, jumped in, and they sped off. _________________ Joe T.
'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32
"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron
"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond
Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present
www.josephtrussell.com |
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erste Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2013 Posts: 1110 Location: San Francisco
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro |
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joetiger wrote: |
A wild-eyed older lady jumped out of the passenger side and ran up to my passenger window. |
lol
great story
Sorry the shock install sucked! |
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sanchius Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2007 Posts: 1456 Location: IN
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tjet Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014 Posts: 3533 Location: CA & NM
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro |
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joetiger wrote: |
...I've gotten out of practice with rusted/fused/stuck bolts lately but I feel like I've gotten pretty good at it overall. This is what I get for buying a van sold new in Philadelphia and owned in upstate NY for the first part of its life. |
Yeah Eastwood sells rust converter that works pretty good. I got into the habit of treating every bolt on my rusty van, along with antiseize (or blue locktite). The good news is you only need to do it once.
If you have time, you can soak rusty parts in vinegar or molasses (feed store version). Both work well removing rust.
I just ordered 2 gallons of waxoyl to further protect the underside
https://www.roversnorth.com/parts/rnw5005p_waxoyl_black_hardwax_plus_underbody_5_litre_1_32_gal_tin |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16505 Location: Brookeville, MD
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro |
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tjet wrote: |
joetiger wrote: |
...I've gotten out of practice with rusted/fused/stuck bolts lately but I feel like I've gotten pretty good at it overall. This is what I get for buying a van sold new in Philadelphia and owned in upstate NY for the first part of its life. |
Yeah Eastwood sells rust converter that works pretty good. I got into the habit of treating every bolt on my rusty van, along with antiseize (or blue locktite). The good news is you only need to do it once.
If you have time, you can soak rusty parts in vinegar or molasses (feed store version). Both work well removing rust.
I just ordered 2 gallons of waxoyl to further protect the underside
https://www.roversnorth.com/parts/rnw5005p_waxoyl_black_hardwax_plus_underbody_5_litre_1_32_gal_tin |
That is the undercoat version. The regular version is just a golden wax. Should be fine though. _________________ Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson
MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646
Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794 |
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joetiger Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005 Posts: 5078 Location: denver
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:59 am Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro |
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I installed new front shocks and springs on Saturday.
Major thanks to Sodo for the idea of using conduit as a spacer on spring compressors. It worked like a charm.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=671406
I think daily soakings with PB Blaster really helped with the bolts.
I didn't have any trouble threading the upper shock bolt into the top mount. The problem I had was getting the bottom mount into the control arm and aligned properly. That is a TIGHT fit. With enough profanity and my trusty hammer, everything eventually went together.
Removing the radius rod completely was the only way I could get to the front lower shock nut. That seems like a dumb design.
The van rides like a Ferrari Cadillac now. You never realize how worn out shocks are until you install new ones.
With new shocks and springs, I'm sitting at 18 1/2" in the back, 19" in the front. I'll drive it around a bit and let it settle in and see where I end up.
The best(?) news of the day is that my 4 year old upper ball joints are trashed. They were dry, rattling/loose, which means my tires aren't unbalanceable and hopefully I've found the source of my front end wiggle. I'm installing Lemforder HD UBJ's from autohaus.az in anticipation of T3 Technique's new ones being available. (I ordered from Autohaus because Van Cafe only had one UBJ in stock.)
After UBJ's, I'll get a fresh alignment.
Thanks for the tips! I was very sore after this one. I dare crossfit people to spend a day doing suspension work on a Vanagon. _________________ Joe T.
'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32
"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron
"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond
Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present
www.josephtrussell.com |
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MsTaboo Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006 Posts: 4098 Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro |
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joetiger wrote: |
I was very sore after this one. I dare crossfit people to spend a day doing suspension work on a Vanagon. |
(especially a Syncro!) _________________ Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec
The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
Help the fight against Truth Decay.
Defend democracy, support Ukraine. |
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joetiger Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005 Posts: 5078 Location: denver
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Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:48 am Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro |
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"Dad, aren't we getting a Christmas tree today?"
"I'm sorry honey, no. My new upper ball joints arrived early. Christmas will have to wait until tomorrow."
All buttoned up, the front end feels tighter and better on the road for sure but I still have that steering wheel shimmy at 65 MPH and up. Not as pronounced as before, but it's still there.
I'll get it aligned and go from there.
I found this thread, which makes me queasy in its discussion of an unbalanced VC:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0 _________________ Joe T.
'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32
"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron
"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond
Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present
www.josephtrussell.com |
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elizer Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2016 Posts: 1466 Location: Northern Virginia
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Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:53 am Post subject: Re: Reviving a Syncro |
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The joys of owning a syncro. Time for 3 knob? Christmas can wait until the little one is 18. |
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