Carb to EFI ‘76 Westy

[deathman68]

Yes you read the title correctly. Working on my friend’s ‘76 Westy and I’m helping him go back to the factory fuel injection from the garbage single Weber carb that the PO converted to. I’ve acquired all the parts through various Samba members and online vendors. When I mocked it up today I realized that the intake runners don’t line up with the air plenum. See pic below:

When I searched the part number for the intake runners (022133211) I get mostly hits for Porsche though perhaps the parts are interchangeable? Also interesting is that in spite of the part numbers being the same for both L&R sides, when I try swapping the parts on the same side of the plenum, the runners point in different directions indicating that the two parts are indeed different (or tweaked?). . Can anyone confirm what I might be missing here or do I simply have the wrong parts?
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1973 Riviera “Annie”
Build Thread: 1973 Riviera+Subaru 2.5+5 Speed
EJ25+5 Speed Conversion Part/Cost Tracker

[Wasted youth]

You are probably dealing with the Weber Progressive intake runner/tubes. I think they look the same, but are different.

I am 90% certain you will need to source the VW intake tubes. I might have some in the pile... and I think there is a Left and a Right. I can look for you when I get home on Monday.

I think Gary (aeromech) and I talked about this problem a year or two ago.

[busdaddy]

[deathman68]

It was supposed to have been a matched set for a bus. @wasted youth, it would be great if you could pull the part numbers for the intake runners you have when you get the chance.
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1973 Riviera “Annie”
Build Thread: 1973 Riviera+Subaru 2.5+5 Speed
EJ25+5 Speed Conversion Part/Cost Tracker

[germansupplyscott]

[Wasted youth]

Ha!

The runners are different... fuel injector ports... DUH!


deathman68, I'll see what I have and get back to you.

[raygreenwood]

[Wasted youth]

Sorry it took until today to reply. I have pawed through the heap. There are not any spare intake tubes, I see they are all parts of saved engine hulks.

[Wildthings]

Since every FI bus engine came with a set so they shouldn't be hard to source.

[deathman68]

Thanks Wasted Youth and no worries. The seller is making it right and sending the correct bus intake runners. Update to follow.
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1973 Riviera “Annie”
Build Thread: 1973 Riviera+Subaru 2.5+5 Speed
EJ25+5 Speed Conversion Part/Cost Tracker

[deathman68]

Good news and bad news...

The good: Got the "new" intake runners and now everything lines up perfectly.

The bad: I went to install the "bus" 7-pin AFM only to learn that the holes don't line up with the air box.

Yet another part that's not from a bus (it's from a 914). Out of paranoia I went ahead and checked ALL the other supposed bus parts and they cross-referenced as being for a Type 2 with the exception of the AFM. I need the 0 280 200 018 or the 0 280 200 020. Anyone have a spare 7-pin late bay AFM laying around that they want to sell?

Can't wait to be able to get back to my Subaru swap when we finally move into the new house at the end of Feb...
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1973 Riviera “Annie”
Build Thread: 1973 Riviera+Subaru 2.5+5 Speed
EJ25+5 Speed Conversion Part/Cost Tracker

[SGKent]

quality ones come up for sale, even NOS sometimes. Keep you eyes open for them. 0 280 200 020 and 0 280 200 018 are interchangeable. Check the diaphragm on the air box to be sure it holds vacuum. If not keep an eye for that too.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[oscarsnapkin]

I went through the carb. to FI conversion with my Bus after I bought it. I was fortunate enough to buy an “almost” complete FI setup from a samba ad. Clean the crap out of everything, and then clean it again for good measure. There’s a FI service manual available here that explains how to check all of the components. I had my injectors cleaned professionally by someone that was recommended here, can’t remember his name, but someone here will know. Probably money well spent. Replaced all rubber parts. I actually enjoyed the whole process, a bit like putting together a puzzle since I was starting from zero. It was a nice way to learn all of the FI components as well, so now I have a better understanding of the system. Good luck.

Found the manual:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/afc_f...Manual.pdf
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- 1977 CEI Sunroof Bus 2.0L F.I. Hydraulic Lifters
- 1973 Thing

"It’s so easy to laugh, it’s so easy to hate, it takes strength to be gentle and kind."

[deathman68]

Thanks all for the replies. A couple Sambaites have reached out with potential AFM candidatess, so hoping to be back in business here in the next couple weeks.
_________________
1973 Riviera “Annie”
Build Thread: 1973 Riviera+Subaru 2.5+5 Speed
EJ25+5 Speed Conversion Part/Cost Tracker

[deathman68]

Got the engine put back together with all new/NOS efi parts. I've got a no-start condition.

I'm no stranger to this setup, and have verified I've got a good battery charge, all grounds in place, no vacuum leaks, fuel and spark. I then painstakingly went item by item to check functionality according to the efi troubleshooting guide and everything is within spec and working properly.

So that leaves me to believe that something is awry with my electrical hookups (also verified with the wiring diagram) and/or my ignition system/timing. So here's the thing: as I did the conversion, I messed with only one thing at a time (and didn't touch the timing) and therefore have yet to swap out my 009 distributor with electronic ignition for my shiny new rebuilt correct SVDA distributor from Sparkwerks.

I've heard that the 009 with electronic ignition *may* not be compatible due to the efi brain's need to pickup the injector ground signal from the -1 side of the coil and/or timing differences. Obviously, the easiest solution would be to install the new dizzy and set timing, but wanted to survey the gurus here first before adding another potential No-start reason to my list.

As an FYI, the bus will sometimes start for a fraction of a second and immediately die. Once again, I've smoke tested...no vacuum leaks.
Fuel pressure is good in the main loop etc etc. Thoughts on the dizzy being the culprit?
_________________
1973 Riviera “Annie”
Build Thread: 1973 Riviera+Subaru 2.5+5 Speed
EJ25+5 Speed Conversion Part/Cost Tracker

[Wildthings]

Try swapping your spark plug wires 180° around the distributor cap.

[SGKent]

Before doing anything else, I would dump a teaspoon of gasoline in the plenum and see if it starts, runs longer, and dies again. Report back.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[aeromech]

[deathman68]

Quick update...had my helper come for a visit this weekend to turn the key while I hooked up the test light.

First, we dropped a spoonful of gas in the intake and she fired right up for a second or two which I take as a good sign. Next, went component by component with the voltmeter/test lamp. Everything checked out except it appears that the ECU is not grounding out the injectors on every other opening of the points as it's designed to do. The injectors are getting 12V from the series resistance block and there's continuity on the ECU trigger from the Coil No. 1 connector to the ECU pin1. Coil is known to be good and dwell/static timing has been correctly set with the new SVDA from Bill at Sparkwerks.

I found a good used Federal ECU from a '77 which should hopefully arrive by this weekend. It's the only part that wasn't replaced as part of the conversion and it's clear that it had been tampered with by the PO, so hoping this is the culprit.
_________________
1973 Riviera “Annie”
Build Thread: 1973 Riviera+Subaru 2.5+5 Speed
EJ25+5 Speed Conversion Part/Cost Tracker

[aeromech]

I hope the new ECU solves your problem but…. The resistor pack is there to drop the 12v from the system down to 5v at the injector, not 12v.
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