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djkeev
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DuncanS
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Joined: October 17, 2013
Posts: 4583
Location: New Hampshire
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 Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:20 am Post subject: Re: OEM Vanagon heater core reseal |
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Dave, thanks so much for the tech sheet on 5200. I've been using it for 50 years and never knew that. Not trying to argue away from the idea of The Right Stuff grey, but would be curious to see what would happen to a wad of cured 5200 being boiled in water. I wonder if the stuff breaks down entirely or just the bond between the surfaces is lost. If the latter, perhaps this would be good to use to create a removable O ring or gasket.
A vote for the sticky. This is really good info for people who don't want to smell sweet perfume in the winter.
Duncan |
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DanHoug
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Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4800
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: OEM Vanagon heater core reseal |
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more progress.... after looking at the design of the seal, there are TWO potential leak areas. 1) the tank header to rubber seal, and 2) the rubber seal to crimp pan. i wanted both sealed and yet was concerned about the physical thickness of TRS adding difficulty re-crimping. here's the bottom side of the seal
so i opt'd for another go-to sealant... Gasgacinch. it is a high neoprene solids 'rubber cement' that has stood the test of time.
using a syringe and needle, i put down a nice layer of Gasgacinch UNDER the Buna seal to make sure that didn't leak.
then painted the header tanks with a layer and let it dry
next, i laid a fine bead of Gasgacinch on the topside of the Buna seal with the needle. also let this dry, then laid ANOTHER bead on top of this to act as a lubricant between the header tank and Buna. difficult to see, but the bead is laid in there. syringe works perfect for this.
using clamps, bind the entire assembly together. this is where the very thin Gasgacinch may be a better choice than TRS as the tank really needs to seat down close to where it was.
a Vise Grips works well to initially fold the crimp back over but this must be combined with hammering to flatten the crimp against the header tank.
a punch worked well to fold the crimp tighter, some was done while in the clamps but after i bent what i could, i released it from the clamps to finish punch work on the crimp.
i'm letting this dry now for a couple days before pressure testing. the crimps look good, i'm pretty hopeful. i would say that perhaps tightening the crimps alone, without disassembly and sealant, may be good enough to stem leaks but i only want to do this once.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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Franklinstower
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Joined: September 21, 2006
Posts: 1896
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: OE Vanagon heater core reseal |
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Only a 2 PBR job? Either it's an easy re-seal or we are not seeing the whole picture 
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'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
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djkeev
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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DanHoug
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Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4800
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: OE Vanagon heater core reseal |
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| djkeev wrote: |
| Franklinstower wrote: |
| Only a 2 PBR job? Either it's an easy re-seal or we are not seeing the whole picture |
What is a PBR? |
garage beer. Pabst Blue Ribbon.
but no comments on the Toast-A-Lator in the background???  i restore toasters... Sunbeam Automatic Radiant Control, Toastmaster 1B14, and my first Toast-A-Lator with the moving conveyor for the toast from one side to the other. another project, so little time.
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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mtnhome 
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Joined: July 17, 2010
Posts: 500
Location: Summit County, CO
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: OE Vanagon heater core reseal |
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I can't believe Dave hasn't experienced the crisp, refreshing taste of Pabst Blue Ribbon.
When I was in high school in Bemidji, it was Grain Belt or Hamm's for us.
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'84 Westy, '93 Subaru ej22 and Subarugears 5speed
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bobhill8
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djkeev
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djkeev
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DanHoug
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Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:59 am Post subject: Re: OE Vanagon heater core reseal |
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Hylomar would work well on the tank side of the gasket, i'd forgotten about using that! but on the crimp pan side, if any is even needed there, something extrudable in a syringe is a benefit because the rubber can only be lifted in a narrow band around the perimeter.
i'm concerned about each tube seal, not knowing the seal mechanism... there's not any compressive pressure so are they glued? just rely on the Buna gasket? is it perhaps sealed at the crimp pan-to-tube juncture (and how?!). i was too chicken to lift the Buna seal off completely. someone with a truly damaged, unfixable core should investigate.
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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djkeev
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Steve M.
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Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:11 am Post subject: Re: OE Vanagon heater core reseal |
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I also had the aromatic smell of coolant when turning on the heater 2-3 yrs. ago.
I think the Subaru Coolant Conditioner sealed the leak because it stopped.
If you use a good antifreeze I can't see the tubes corroding through over the years so these end seals are the source of the leaking.
It is a matter of routine that I am cleaning tube cored heat exchangers and a single blocked tube equals 2 degrees of cooling effect, but there's easily 40-60 tubes in the heat exchangers so it takes more then a few blocked tubes to start the overheating cycle.
For resealing the end caps I usually cut new seals out of Buna sheet material and thinking you could do the same for these heater cores if you could get the original thickness.
It would be a tedious thing to do, so these sealents look to be a good fix.
Good on you for posting the repair.
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There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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rogertj
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Location: Tijuana, Baja California. Mexico
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| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:17 am Post subject: Re: OE Vanagon heater core reseal |
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Great thread im saving it to my bookmarks I have a bad rear heater
and because I saw how the radiator guys worked on one big one I said hmmm that easy stuff. They used the black silicone dough because he told me that the grey silicone just stayed in there and it was hard to get it out.
Thanks for the information
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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0 |
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DanHoug
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Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:58 pm Post subject: Re: OE Vanagon heater core reseal |
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| djkeev wrote: |
I would think that those tubes are soldered to a plate?
That would makes sense anyway……..
Dave |
looking over my photos, the aluminum tube looks to be expanded against the steel crimp plate. i don't think OEMs would futz with the tricky process of soldering aluminum to steel, especially back in the day.
pressure test tomorrow! 20 psi while submerged in hot soapy water.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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djkeev
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DanHoug
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Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:16 am Post subject: Re: OE Vanagon heater core reseal |
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| djkeev wrote: |
So you're thinking that each one of these tubes are sealed by the circular hole in the gasket?
And the key is to keep coolant on the tank side only of the gasket?
That's a huge failure potential!
If this is true, I'd be tempted to lift the entire gasket and reseal at each tube.
Dave |
no, i'm saying it looks like the end of the aluminum tube is expanded against the crimp pan, forming a metal-metal seal. i don't know why the rubber is around each tube but yes, that would be multiple and likely failure points and THAT's not where we see leaks on these... always at the plastic.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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spitsnrovers
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Joined: December 17, 2005
Posts: 925
Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:28 am Post subject: Re: OE Vanagon heater core reseal |
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Further to the discussion on sealing the tubes - about 10 years ago my rear heater gave off the usual coolant smell. The weepage appeared around the ends of the tubes - not at the end caps.
With long needle nose pliers and sharp tools I tore all the fins off the tubes for about 1/2 inch up from the end caps. Cleaned it thoroughly - I forget with what.
Then, with body adhesive (again forget the brand), forced the adhesive aggressively in between all the tubes from the last remaining fin to the end cap. Taped around the edges to keep the adhesive in place while forcing more in from the opposite side and ends.
When it had cured, reinstalled the core. As stated, that was well over 10 years ago , and no more leaks!
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DanHoug
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Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:08 am Post subject: Re: OE Vanagon heater core reseal |
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the testing at 20psi showed no leaks. water testing to observe bubbles has a higher reliability than trying to observe an air pressure drop.... just kept 20psi continually applied for a couple hours. nada.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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rogertj
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Joined: October 07, 2008
Posts: 505
Location: Tijuana, Baja California. Mexico
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:37 am Post subject: Re: OE Vanagon heater core reseal |
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Thats some great testing! Technology of spacex!
Bravo!
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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0 |
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