Dwell question

[robin.richard]

Hello,

I have tested my dwell @ 32 with two separate meters (Sears and Accurate Instrument Co) but the points gap is the correct 0.016. I know feeler gauge measurements can be off some, but…. The Engine runs great. When the gap is closer (dwell @ 45-4 the feeler gauge .016 doesn’t fit in the points and the engine will stall at low RMPs when coming to a stop.

Here are my engine specs:
1600SP
30 PICT-1
German vacuum distributor 118 905 205K

Is the dwell okay at 32 if the engine runs good?

What is going on?

-Rich
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[busdaddy]

[Glenn]

You're confusing dwell angle and timing advance.

The dwell angle should be around 49*.

Timing should be 7.5* at idle with the vacuum hose disconnected and the carb port plugged.
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[robin.richard]

Yes, but just static timing with test light, 7.5 BTDC if I remember correctly. I don’t have a timing light.

-Rich
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[Glenn]

[robin.richard]

We’ll,

I don’t believe I’m confusing timing v. Dwell. The dwell measures @ 32 and the points gap is 0.016 with feeler gauge. Timing is set (static) @ 7.5 BTDC. Correct?

Engine runs great but both dwell meters measuring 32, not 45-48.

-Rich
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[Glenn]

Are they set for a 4 cylinder?

Forget the feeler gauge and use the dwell meter.
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74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

[robin.richard]

Glenn,

Agree with the timing light. Next on the list for sure.

With that said, I have always used a feeler gauge to set my gaps and static timing.

I thought I’d give a dwell meter a try for the first time. Because my engine was runnning so well I thought the first meter was off so I tried a second meter. They both measured the dwell angle @ 32. Both meters are set for 4 cylinders. When I adjusted the points gap closer than 0.016, and used the meters to measured the dwell angle @ 48, the engine now stalls when coming to a stop at a lights. I also adjusted the timing each time after I adjusted the points. But that was just static timing.

I wouldn’t think I was that far off by using a feeler gauge at 0.016 and static timing @ 7.5 BTDC. Could it be off by that much?

I reset everything back to what I originally had it set to and will try it again once I get a timing light.

-Rich
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[tasb]

With a vacuum advance only distributor you don't NEED a timing light, but it's not a bad idea. The factory manuals describe setting timing static. It is an accurate method. A 113 K distributor is static timed at 7-8 degrees BTDC. With brand new points I like to set dwell at 43-49 which is a bit wide but allows for points rubbing block to wearing in and not need adjustment quite so soon. You might need to do some carburetor adjustments along with distributor tuning to eliminate your stalling issue.
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1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse

[galexander]

If you are gonna run points in your Bus, invest in a good dwell meter and timing light.
I have the exact same set up in Jerry the Bus.
Here are the specs I run:

Set your dwell first:
48-52 degrees

then set your timing
7.5degrees BTDC

Your motor will be very happy at those numbers.
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Check out our YouTube Channel, VW Life

[donald.lemay]

I’d grab one of these I love mine, make tuning quick.

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2085cc
9to1compression
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010 distributor
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40 IDF carbs

[Abscate]

Counterpoint


In the Muir days, static timing was fine.

Now these cars have 60 year old distributors and advance mechanism in them and you need the light to sort out problems not foreseen 60 years ago.

Suggestion….forget the timing light and get your distributor reworked by Bill, Glenn , or one of the great guys here.

Send your money to add value to your car, not to a cheap piece of crap electronics you need once or twice a year.
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[Tizian]

[Lind]

Simple:
Get an analog dwell meter, set it at 46-50 degrees.
Get a dial advance timing light, rev it up and set your total advance at 28-30 degrees.
Done.
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.

[BulliBill]

I have an Innova timing light very similar in appearance to the one shown in a post above. FYI, They are pretty cool, very precise, but as I remember they need to be hooked up to a 12 volt system, and most of my old VWs are 6 volt powered. To get around that, a dear buddy (Brian Holcomb RIP) once showed me how to park any 12 volt car (or just a 12 volt car battery) next to the 6 volt car and hook up the "power wires/cables" from the Innova unit to the 12 volt car battery and the other cables from the Innova to the appropriate terminals on the 6 volt car and suddenly all was "hunky-dory"! Thanks again, and rest in peace Brian.

Bill
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Thanks for any help!

[chrisflstf]

What is the factory dwell spec? Ive seen 3 or 4 different values here.

[Lind]

[BonTonRoulet]

Yep. I wouldn't "dwell" on it. Set the timing for full advance and let the idle fall where it may. Nothing more unnerving than setting full advance on a Porsche 911SC at 6,000 rpm. I seem to remember Harry Pellow opining that 30 degrees all in was the safe limit on the old 356 and 912 engines.

[robin.richard]

Thanks to all.

I borrowed an induction timing light from a friend today and checked timing during lunch. With the bus engine warmed I tested the timing at idle (approx 800-900 RPM) and my timing was spot on with the timing light. So, one for static timing.

Lind,
I will try checking the timing at full advance to make sure the can is working properly. Is the RPMs @ 3,000 for full advance on my little 1600 engine? 30 deg advance BTDC?

Tizian,
Yes, the meters are hooked up correctly. The Sears with three wires requires neg (-) on the coil with green wire, positive (+) on battery with red wire, and negative on battery ground on body with black wire.

The Accurate Instruments meter with two wires is red on the neg (-) on the coil and black on battery (-) wire to body ground.

Both measure 32 deg dwell at idle.

This weekend I will again try adjusting the points using the meters to 48 deg dwell (room for block ware and buildup between the points) and adjust timing if needed via the timing light. I may also try the old matchbook trick to get it closer rather than the 0.016 feeler gage. We'll see what happens.

BTW galexander,

After 10+ years in setting my buses with feeler gauges and static timing, It was your YouTube video that caused me to consider checking my dwell in the first place....Thanks!!! Ha, ha.

I'll let you guys know what I find out this weekend.

Cheers

-Rich
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Drive your bus!

[KTPhil]

Unless your points are brand new and perfectly aligned, a feeler blade can be inaccurate. The tit makes you set it way too wide.

I like to be able to use a feeler blade on the road as a "close enough" check, but there is a trick. If you don't put the blade between the entire face of the points, but just the "un-titted" edge, you can get a decent reading. They have to be properly aligned for even this hack to work.

I have a point file but it's hard to get it in there right without pulling the distributor, or at least the points. Easier to just put in your spare new/filed point set for the rest of your drive (you DO have a spare set in the car at all times, right?), then set your static timing, and be close enough to drive decently and get you home.