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Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups
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Abscate Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:14 am    Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups Reply with quote

I didn’t see this upthread but might have missed it

You need all new fuel lines to those injectors , with oetiker clamps, not hose clamps

This prevents fires. Yours are in awful shape. They are a 3-5 year inspect and replace item
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:35 am    Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups Reply with quote

Kapish wrote:
djkeev wrote:
Fuel is what cools the fuel pump.

If a fuel pump runs dry it is no cooled or lubricated.

Dave


So Dave, do you think it's possible to only slightly damage a fuel pump? And if so, would my symptoms point to that being the case?

I just sent off my injectors to Mr Injector today, so thank you for that reference.


A lot of unknowns here.

A pump not cooled or lubricated will get damaged but how long it takes and to what extent, I know not.

As mentioned by others, it is time to upgrade/ renew your fuel delivery.
A pump wouldn't be the dumbest thing to renew.

We cannot see or hear it so it is tough to say.

Dave
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups Reply with quote

Kapish wrote:
whafalia wrote:
The little square filter pre-pump gave me regular trouble after filling up at a station that was being refilled by a tank truck. I believe that old wive's tale now. No problems since eliminating that filter and going to a big filter post-pump. The 84 fuel tank has a small orifice that Van Cafe offers an adaptor for.
I am considering a mansispeed pre-pump filter, looks like you can clear it on the side of the road,


I believe it too! Definitely going to be filling only with premium at good gas stations now.. https://www.gowesty.com/tech-article-details.php?id=93 Tell me why you're considering going back to a pre-pump filter?


I would run both filters, right now my pump is not protected. Regarding trying a pump I think an extra pump in stock is a necessity. So if it doesn't fix your symptoms you have your spare. Last one I replaced was in an RV park in Guerro Negro Baja Sur.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:13 am    Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups Reply with quote

whafalia wrote:
Kapish wrote:
whafalia wrote:
The little square filter pre-pump gave me regular trouble after filling up at a station that was being refilled by a tank truck. I believe that old wive's tale now. No problems since eliminating that filter and going to a big filter post-pump. The 84 fuel tank has a small orifice that Van Cafe offers an adaptor for.
I am considering a mansispeed pre-pump filter, looks like you can clear it on the side of the road,


I believe it too! Definitely going to be filling only with premium at good gas stations now.. https://www.gowesty.com/tech-article-details.php?id=93 Tell me why you're considering going back to a pre-pump filter?


I would run both filters, right now my pump is not protected. Regarding trying a pump I think an extra pump in stock is a necessity. So if it doesn't fix your symptoms you have your spare. Last one I replaced was in an RV park in Guerro Negro Baja Sur.


Heard! Thanks man. There is definitely a list of parts that are small enough and cheap enough that it would be dumb not to have a spare in the car at all times! Just learned about the alternator's voltage regulator. A tiny $20 part easily replaced with hand tools.

A friend of mine says he always carries a spare axle and cv joints with him Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:18 am    Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
I didn’t see this upthread but might have missed it

You need all new fuel lines to those injectors , with oetiker clamps, not hose clamps

This prevents fires. Yours are in awful shape. They are a 3-5 year inspect and replace item


Heard. Thanks so much. I will get right on this. How to you recommend cleaning up the engine bay in general?? Will generic degreaser and water do the trick?

Also I was thinking of getting GoWesty's Blazecut Fire Suppression System. https://www.gowesty.com/product/safety/24393/blazecut-fire-suppression-system?v=
What do you think? Pretty expensive but seems like great insurance.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 2:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups Reply with quote

There is so much room on the driver side of the engine bay without the A/C condensor! I like my A/C but jeez is it difficult to access that side of the engine.

My suggestion to fix your stuttering problem is:
1) replace the fuel filter if not already done
2) replace the ground strap on the left (driver) side of the engine bay. Your looks corroded and I bet it is frayed or cracking in places.

If the above don't work then try things other have mentioned (in no particular order)

3) make sure your distributor cap is installed correctly
4) check the timing to make sure it is correct
5) make sure your spark plug wires are well seated and replace your plugs if they are not relatively new
6) Send your injectors to be cleaned. I sent mine to Witchhunter and was pleased with the service I received althought it takes a couple weeks at least.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2021 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups Reply with quote

SeacoastRed wrote:
There is so much room on the driver side of the engine bay without the A/C condensor! I like my A/C but jeez is it difficult to access that side of the engine.

My suggestion to fix your stuttering problem is:
1) replace the fuel filter if not already done
2) replace the ground strap on the left (driver) side of the engine bay. Your looks corroded and I bet it is frayed or cracking in places.

If the above don't work then try things other have mentioned (in no particular order)

3) make sure your distributor cap is installed correctly
4) check the timing to make sure it is correct
5) make sure your spark plug wires are well seated and replace your plugs if they are not relatively new
6) Send your injectors to be cleaned. I sent mine to Witchhunter and was pleased with the service I received althought it takes a couple weeks at least.


Never thought I'd appreciate not having AC, power steering, or 4WD, but I'm learning there are little pluses to not having these things! Laughing

I've been confused about that engine ground strap because I see that GoWesty sells a replacement that looks very different from the original- https://www.gowesty.com/product/made-in-usa/24428/engine-ground-cable?v=
So I grabbed some 8AWG from work and made my own, but after installing, my van wouldn't start. Put the old corroded one back on and it started right up.... So now I'm just skeptical and confused about why the braided one works.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:13 am    Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups Reply with quote

There are people on here more knowledgeable about this, but the only advantage to the braided wire that im aware of is that is flexes better as the motor shakes. I believe you can get a braided one at Vanagain or one of the other vendors. Im guessing when you installed the Gowesty one there was a loose screw or something like that which prevented good electrical contact. Or maybe you have some rust where the strap is bolted into the body of the van.

Another easy thing to check is your fuel pressure at the fuel pressure regulator on top of the engine. Perhaps some crud got in there and your pressure is off. I can’t remember the spec but a search will help you (maybe 30 psi?). You can rent a tester for free at autozone.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups Reply with quote

fellow 84 owner here. while fuel is important, it sounds like you might have air leaks in your vacuum hoses or intake (at least for the symptoms before running out of fuel). the 84 distributor is sensitive to vacuum leaks. check to see if those original braided hoses are still holding air (this will impact your idle). the S boot is prone to have cracks and air leaks. the aux air intake hose (90o connector) often falls to bits and falls off very easily. (this will cause sputtering)

on a recent summer holiday, i was convinced i had a fuel delivery issue, but it turned out to be an air intake hose. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9690276#9690276

also, this is a great resource for our year of van, like the digijet training manual but for the whole van. https://maggiolino.it/immagini/manuali/vanagon-1-9-wbx-manual-1983.pdf
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups Reply with quote

atomatom wrote:
fellow 84 owner here. while fuel is important, it sounds like you might have air leaks in your vacuum hoses or intake (at least for the symptoms before running out of fuel). the 84 distributor is sensitive to vacuum leaks. check to see if those original braided hoses are still holding air (this will impact your idle). the S boot is prone to have cracks and air leaks. the aux air intake hose (90o connector) often falls to bits and falls off very easily. (this will cause sputtering)

on a recent summer holiday, i was convinced i had a fuel delivery issue, but it turned out to be an air intake hose. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9690276#9690276

also, this is a great resource for our year of van, like the digijet training manual but for the whole van. https://maggiolino.it/immagini/manuali/vanagon-1-9-wbx-manual-1983.pdf


Just went over and read your post. Sure reminds me to be thankful for being in a comfortable convenient place to break down. Anyways thanks for your take. I will look over the whole thing more closely for vacuum leaks. I'm sure I will find one or two hoses or ducts to replace.

That manual looks like a shorter version of my Bentley manual. Do you have both?
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups Reply with quote

i do have both, but only have a physical copy of the bentley. i find the bentley is rather annoying due to the numerous variants.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups Reply with quote

atomatom wrote:
fellow 84 owner here. while fuel is important, it sounds like you might have air leaks in your vacuum hoses or intake (at least for the symptoms before running out of fuel). the 84 distributor is sensitive to vacuum leaks. check to see if those original braided hoses are still holding air (this will impact your idle). the S boot is prone to have cracks and air leaks. the aux air intake hose (90o connector) often falls to bits and falls off very easily. (this will cause sputtering)

on a recent summer holiday, i was convinced i had a fuel delivery issue, but it turned out to be an air intake hose. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9690276#9690276

also, this is a great resource for our year of van, like the digijet training manual but for the whole van. https://maggiolino.it/immagini/manuali/vanagon-1-9-wbx-manual-1983.pdf


think I found the culprit to the idle issue. this is the same braided air hose that you had issues with and it's really frayed. I've got another rubber hose going to the intake manifold that is pretty kinked. Can I just replace this with a silicone hose? Having a hard time finding this braided stuff.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


on a side note: do you have any clue what this plug coming out next to my alternator could be? looks like someone put a cushion clamp on the alternator to hold it...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups Reply with quote

you can never really tell what the rubber is like inside those braided hoses. i highly recommend replacing the one that is supposed to suck coolant from the overflow tank (licence plate) to the blue cap. that system doesn't work if the sucking hose has holes...

that connector. the flux capacitor. for sure.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups Reply with quote

atomatom wrote:
you can never really tell what the rubber is like inside those braided hoses. i highly recommend replacing the one that is supposed to suck coolant from the overflow tank (licence plate) to the blue cap. that system doesn't work if the sucking hose has holes...

that connector. the flux capacitor. for sure.


AHHhhhh.... nice to know about that plug. Thank you! Do you know where to get that braided air hose? I've been looking around everywhere and see no mention of these kinds of hoses...
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:32 am    Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups Reply with quote

It’s much better to spend your money on prevention:

New fuel line
Eliminate bulkhead connector
Oetiker clamps, not hardware store junk

Than

Blaze cut , fire extinguishers, halon suppression
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:49 am    Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups Reply with quote

VanCafe/RMW sells this vacuum hose. Check the diameter to see if it matches:

https://www.vancafe.com/N0203535-p/n0203535.htm

You have found the mystery plug. It is a key discovery on your path to Vanagon enlightenment. I asked the same question 5 years ago. Your turn, Grasshopper:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=711110
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:04 am    Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups Reply with quote

Your original problems may have been a bad AAR (Auxiliary Air Regulator), vaccum leaks, and a grounded coax for your O2 sensor.

The fuel tank has screening on the outlet that can only be cleaned somewhat by blowing back through the outlet, but you risk blowing off a hose inside the tank by doing this. There is also a screen on the inlet of the pump that can clog.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2021 9:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
Your original problems may have been a bad AAR (Auxiliary Air Regulator), vaccum leaks, and a grounded coax for your O2 sensor.

The fuel tank has screening on the outlet that can only be cleaned somewhat by blowing back through the outlet, but you risk blowing off a hose inside the tank by doing this. There is also a screen on the inlet of the pump that can clog.


Auxiliary Air Regulator- now there's a part that I have never heard of before! Thank you for bringing this up. When I get my injectors back I will continue down the list. It's great to know where these screens are too.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2021 9:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups Reply with quote

the aux air regulator is the metal thing below your frayed hose. aside from the hoses not being full of holes or not connected (and letting in more air than they should) it also has a power connector that could come loose (similar type of power connector as the fuel injectors)

https://www.vanagain.com/shop/auxilary-air-valve
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2021 10:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Ran out of Gas- now experiencing stuttering/hiccups Reply with quote

bobhill8 wrote:
VanCafe/RMW sells this vacuum hose. Check the diameter to see if it matches:

https://www.vancafe.com/N0203535-p/n0203535.htm

You have found the mystery plug. It is a key discovery on your path to Vanagon enlightenment. I asked the same question 5 years ago. Your turn, Grasshopper:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=711110


Thanks for the link. It looks small, but I will verify. There are various sizes of these braided hoses. Are the braided hoses obsolete? Can we just replace with silicone?

I love learning about this machine. It's so nice to be on the journey with so many others. It's absolutely empowering to know this much about my car. And I'm just getting started!!
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