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matthewl Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2014 Posts: 328
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:38 pm Post subject: My little 2287 build |
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I figured I would start a build thread on the motor for my Meyers Manx. Currently collecting parts, but have most of it. I plan on this being a driver, not an all out horse power monster. Some parts are overkill I know , but I just want it solid.
So here we go.
2287cc ( 92mm x 86mm)
CB 86mm flanged crank and flywheel
CB 5.5" H beam rods Chevy journal
CB aluminum case 94mm bore 3.5mm raised deck, mod for flanged crank.
AA thick wall 92mm P&C forged
CB 2255 cam and lifters
CB straight cut cam gears
CB Panchito heads with 61cc CNC chambers 94mm bored
Weber 44idf on CB type three intakes (for air filter clearance)
CB magnaspark II distributor
CB black box
Gene Berg linkage
CB 26mm oil pump ( might run something else)
CB pro push rod tubes
CB 1.4 ratio rockers
1 5/8" empi big engine off-road exhaust ( might run something else later)
So that's what I have collected so far. Once I get the Manx a little farther along and get a few more small things. We will start assembly. _________________ Check out all the Air-cooled fun on my YouTube channel https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCl9IVR1svnDmH1i6yQ4_o1Q?view_as=subscriber |
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jpaull Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005 Posts: 3456 Location: Paradise, Ca
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:05 pm Post subject: Re: My little 2287 build |
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Cool build!! Lots of good parts for a durable engine _________________ [email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15279 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:22 pm Post subject: Re: My little 2287 build |
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I'd choose a different cam. Maybe the CB 2288 or Engle FK-8 for a street driver. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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dwiggl Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2019 Posts: 8 Location: Cali
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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:58 am Post subject: Re: My little 2287 build |
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Assuming that PanCheetos are out of the box. What kind of HP can you expect from this combination? |
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Brian_e Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 3228 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:36 am Post subject: Re: My little 2287 build |
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You are building a low revving torque monster for a light buggy.
Do you have an ideal shift RPM? For what you have planned, I don't think its going to rev much over 5000. Lots of displacement, but a tiny cam wont let it breath, and the buggy is light enough it won't need massive torque like a bus does.
Are the shorty T3 manifolds an absolute necessity? Those little things have 2 90deg bends in about a 3" length... Regular IDF manifolds and a shorter air filter might be a better option.
I would swap to the CNC ultra mag, or better yet, Tims S2, and then get a cam like a cb2288, or fk8. It will still have huge power down low to get the buggy moving, but it will also rev to 6500 or so. That extra 1500rpm will make a HUGE difference in your peak HP number.
Brian _________________ www.type-emotorsports.com |
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matthewl Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2014 Posts: 328
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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:28 am Post subject: Re: My little 2287 build |
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Brian_e Low RPM torque monster is what I'm going for. I appreciate the suggestion on camshafts guys, and an fully aware that I'm leave HP on the table. The manifolds are so I can run full size air filters, I've seen other people's buggy where they hit the body and just planning on avoiding that.
I know this thing will probably make around 130hp as where it could make 160 or so with more cam and better manifolds.
The goal is to have a cool running high torque motor that can pull a trailer behind my buggy on cross country trips. Yes a 1776 could do the same thing but it's not much more to go larger. _________________ Check out all the Air-cooled fun on my YouTube channel https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCl9IVR1svnDmH1i6yQ4_o1Q?view_as=subscriber |
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jpaull Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005 Posts: 3456 Location: Paradise, Ca
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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:49 am Post subject: Re: My little 2287 build |
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Those type 3 manifolds are the biggest pain in the @ss ever. I didnt notice that when reading ur build. I lived with those for a few years, and they are absolutely HORRIBLE trying to change plugs. The plug wires are also forced to rub the manifolds cause the sharp angle, and yes you lose alot of torque. I would rather run a short filter and tall manifolds any day over those short manifolds.
Run short stacks and whatever filter you can fit, and it will be way better then short manifolds and tall/normal size filters. _________________ [email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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Brian_e Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 3228 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:37 am Post subject: Re: My little 2287 build |
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Have you mocked any of this up in your buggy yet to see how much room you really have over the carbs?
You know your displacement. Figure out what peak RPM you want it to rev to. Size your intake to meet the RPM, and then size your cam to make power in that range.
With the tiny cam and zig zag manifolds I am guessing 130hp with a 5000rpm limit. With better manifolds, and a higher rpm limit and cam, I would guess at least 165hp. A missing 35+HP would be hard to live with.
Brian _________________ www.type-emotorsports.com |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15279 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:55 am Post subject: Re: My little 2287 build |
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Matt
On your Dunebuggy thread you list the CB 2250 cam on your parts list. On this thread you list the CB 2255 cam. Exactly which one are you planning on using? The 2255 is too wimpy for your 2287. The 2250 would be a great cam with stock 1.1 rockers, but it is not intended to be used with 1.4 ratio rockers.
On my Fiberglass Dunebuggy I have no clearance issues with the regular height IDF manifolds and the regular 3 1/4" tall air cleaners. The CB Big Beef manifolds are taller than their regular IDF/DRLA manifolds. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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matthewl Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2014 Posts: 328
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matthewl Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2014 Posts: 328
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: My little 2287 build |
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Got the rubber top gaskets for the IDF's today form Italy. Shipping was quick considering all the backups on shipping and stuff.
I got them off eBay but included a picture of there info. _________________ Check out all the Air-cooled fun on my YouTube channel https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCl9IVR1svnDmH1i6yQ4_o1Q?view_as=subscriber |
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jsturtlebuggy Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005 Posts: 4496 Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: My little 2287 build |
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I started reading your engine thread. Saw what you planned on using for intake manifolds.
I was using Gene Berg #580A intakes on my Meyers Manx Kick Out with Dellorto carbs and Empi Billet #43-6015 air cleaners with R2C filters in them.
The Berg #580A manifolds are 4in tall measure from the upper rail on the head they valve cover slips over.
I had clearance under the body on left side for the filter and did have to sand down edge of the air cleaner some to get clearance on the right side. It was not much.
I was also using a CSP linkage.
These manifolds have clearance to get plugs and wire to fit without any trouble.
_________________ Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960 |
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matthewl Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2014 Posts: 328
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: My little 2287 build |
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jsturtlebuggy the kick out appears to have much more room for air cleaners, especially on the driver's side. I understand that the type 3 manifolds are far from the greatest. But I do not believe that I will have body clearance on any other manifold with my carb hats. Once I get this all together where I can physically see how much clearance there is I can make a final decision on manifolds.
But seeing how you had to clearance your A/C tops and have a kickout body. It's not giving me much reassurance that my New Classic Manx body will clear with anything else.
_________________ Check out all the Air-cooled fun on my YouTube channel https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCl9IVR1svnDmH1i6yQ4_o1Q?view_as=subscriber |
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matthewl Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2014 Posts: 328
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Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: My little 2287 build |
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So got a few part in the mail. Still got some more to collect before I can put it together.
Sump plate from Jaycee's
Choke block off ( note their wording was plural But you only get one)
And some valve covers
_________________ Check out all the Air-cooled fun on my YouTube channel https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCl9IVR1svnDmH1i6yQ4_o1Q?view_as=subscriber |
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Paul.H Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2015 Posts: 613 Location: England
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:12 am Post subject: Re: My little 2287 build |
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I hadn't heard of the 2255 but It looks like a sensible choice easy on the valve train |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7180 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 5:20 am Post subject: Re: My little 2287 build |
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It'll respond like a big block chevy truck engine. Fair to good power up to about 4000 rpm then its about over. It cant breathe. I'm with brian. Cam is ok w 1,4's. Heads "need" to go. For something more appropriate. _________________ https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993
Last edited by Alstrup on Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6936 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 5:47 am Post subject: Re: My little 2287 build |
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The guys at Myers Manx loved the low reving, stump pulling 2175 that was built for Goldie II.
I’ve never had a Manx, but I do off road in my bus a lot (which has a low reving 2275). It’s nice to have the torque vs the rpms in the mountains, especially at high altitude. _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build |
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Thrown rod Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2021 Posts: 4 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:21 am Post subject: Re: My little 2287 build |
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I like most say it’s a waste of cc’s but the beauty of it is, it’s yours. Build the way you want it. If you like then great if not then you can change things. It’s easier to do the “best” way the first time but it’s yours to do with it how you want. |
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:43 am Post subject: Re: My little 2287 build |
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I always felt these little 4 beaters like being wound up, but then again, if you want to turn it into a Jeep then more power to you!
In all seriousness I like your idea. I will say in a light bug with that much displacement and stroke you are going to have a ton of torque regardless. For the fan to cool the heads properly you need to have the RPMs up, to a degree. The sweet spot for cooling with the stock sized pullys is around 3000. Not sure how you plan to drive the car, or what the terrain is like etc, but that is something to consider obviously. If you going to be slowly crawling through mountainous terrain or shredding up a long steep dirt road? Or both? If so how much time spent on each one, 90% crawling or shredding? 50-50?
If it's mainly just for towing then that is a little different too, cooling is a high priority. You can build it according to the cruising RPM and conditions you have in mind. Around 2800 would be a perfect cruising speed for a tow bug IMO.
Stuff I'd think about... _________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder ) |
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Matthew Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2004 Posts: 1760 Location: Eastern Tennessee
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: My little 2287 build |
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What is the size & weight of the small trailer that will be towed? _________________ 1965 Beetle sedan
Click to view image |
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