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Does anyone use the MST serpentine belt kit?
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madmike
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2021 4:46 am    Post subject: Re: Does anyone use the MST serpentine belt kit? Reply with quote

I've had issue with belts being thrown on" launch" on my turbo bug, ("I still think it's the Junk China Chrome alternator") The cure was to run an Idler pulley with the power Pulley ,,only for racing with a V- belt Wink
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DerrickfromNC1
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Does anyone use the MST serpentine belt kit? Reply with quote

Just helped a friend bench fire up a 2 yr old but still new 2110 crate motor. While in the process of bringing the rpms from idle to 2000 to break in the cam per the builders written instructions we noticed that the engine was slinging a substantial amount of oil from behind the MST pulley. He called the builder who told him to drain the 30wt oil he put in it and replace it with 20/50wt. They said the engine didn’t leak on their dyno and the 30wt oil is too thin and the cause of the problem.
He is going to do as they instructed but I believe the problem is the MST pulley or something worse. Has anyone else had issues with leakage from behind a MST pulley?
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richierich
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Does anyone use the MST serpentine belt kit? Reply with quote

DerrickfromNC1 wrote:
Just helped a friend bench fire up a 2 yr old but still new 2110 crate motor. While in the process of bringing the rpms from idle to 2000 to break in the cam per the builders written instructions we noticed that the engine was slinging a substantial amount of oil from behind the MST pulley. He called the builder who told him to drain the 30wt oil he put in it and replace it with 20/50wt. They said the engine didn’t leak on their dyno and the 30wt oil is too thin and the cause of the problem.
He is going to do as they instructed but I believe the problem is the MST pulley or something worse. Has anyone else had issues with leakage from behind a MST pulley?


What a load of **** about the oil CAUSING the leak. Oil doesn't CAUSE leaks. As I said earlier, I ditched the MST kit off my motor quickly as it was ****.
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nextgen
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Does anyone use the MST serpentine belt kit? Reply with quote

If you think about it there is very little that has improved the VW Air-cooled engines reliability since it's creation.

Talking reliability, not performance.

One is Synthetic Oil.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: Does anyone use the MST serpentine belt kit? Reply with quote

nextgen wrote:
If you think about it there is very little that has improved the VW Air-cooled engines reliability since it's creation.

Talking reliability, not performance.

One is Synthetic Oil.


I’d say a good counterweighted crankshaft helps reliability as does proper oil filtration.
Back on topic. MST pulley began as an idea in the early 2000s and I’m pretty sure they weren’t the first. The old man that pushed this idea here worked at MST and made different prototypes while refining the design. He was a friend of mine and had worked for VW dealerships as line mechanic during 60s and 70s before retiring as service writer in 1989.

The original intent was to eliminate periodically adjusting the belt but also as a custom dress up item. It does look very nice and I’ve known people around here that ran them without problems. In recent years MST traveled to shows and installed the kit for the customers while they waited.

Because these parts are made in America it’s easy to call and get help they have a big presence on the internet and sell the products through CB Performance. I’ve seen what they are capable of making because they have also done work for the military and airlines, that’s where they money is at 😀 I may be biased because they are local and I support doing business with people I know. One thing I really liked was you could get finned aluminum valve covers with your name or logo, that’s truly custom😀
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nextgen
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Does anyone use the MST serpentine belt kit? Reply with quote

I was just referring to stock from the factory bugs. What you said about counter weighting, sure I agree, but VW grabs what is off the shelf. I think the variance can but as much as a silver quarter .

Basically is any year factory built beetle more reliable then any other year.

Actually this should be another post. Going to do it.
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DerrickfromNC1
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: Does anyone use the MST serpentine belt kit? Reply with quote

We pulled the MST pulley out and here is what came out with:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I’m not familiar with sand seals but I told him that l believe the sand seal is supposed to be pressed fitted within the nose of the case. He called the builder(GEX😬) they told him to apply some JB weld and put the seal back in and wait 24hrs & that should solve the problem of slinging oil from behind the pulley.
I don’t like that option but I don’t see where he has another choice w/o opening the case. He purchased the complete engine(2110) from one of his lawn maintenance customers who purchased it about 2yrs ago and it was still on the crate. I told him to chk the samba reviews on GEX first b4 he brought it, but he decided at $4000 he couldn’t pass it up. I hope this sand seal issue is not the 1st of many problems to come.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:49 am    Post subject: Re: Does anyone use the MST serpentine belt kit? Reply with quote

Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked










........GEX
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Does anyone use the MST serpentine belt kit? Reply with quote

DerrickfromNC1 wrote:
We pulled the MST pulley out and here is what came out with:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I’m not familiar with sand seals but I told him that l believe the sand seal is supposed to be pressed fitted within the nose of the case. He called the builder(GEX😬) they told him to apply some JB weld and put the seal back in and wait 24hrs & that should solve the problem of slinging oil from behind the pulley.
I don’t like that option but I don’t see where he has another choice w/o opening the case. He purchased the complete engine(2110) from one of his lawn maintenance customers who purchased it about 2yrs ago and it was still on the crate. I told him to chk the samba reviews on GEX first b4 he brought it, but he decided at $4000 he couldn’t pass it up. I hope this sand seal issue is not the 1st of many problems to come.


Oh dear, oh dear.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Does anyone use the MST serpentine belt kit? Reply with quote

I was warned by my engine builder to not run it but I didn’t listen. I took it off about a week later and went back to a Jaycee. Never had a problem with them.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:34 am    Post subject: Re: Does anyone use the MST serpentine belt kit? Reply with quote

DerrickfromNC1 wrote:
We pulled the MST pulley out and here is what came out with:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I’m not familiar with sand seals but I told him that l believe the sand seal is supposed to be pressed fitted within the nose of the case. He called the builder(GEX😬) they told him to apply some JB weld and put the seal back in and wait 24hrs & that should solve the problem of slinging oil from behind the pulley.
I don’t like that option but I don’t see where he has another choice w/o opening the case. He purchased the complete engine(2110) from one of his lawn maintenance customers who purchased it about 2yrs ago and it was still on the crate. I told him to chk the samba reviews on GEX first b4 he brought it, but he decided at $4000 he couldn’t pass it up. I hope this sand seal issue is not the 1st of many problems to come.
..............................................................................................................................i have run and built many motors useing the mst set up you did not shim the pulley enought .people just dont know how to set up the mst pulleys the right way .they just think you bolt the mst on and go . and never check to see if every thing is lined up ..then when it fails they blame the mst as junk .all you had to do is install a xtra shim so it would not hit the sand seal the best way to use a sand seal is to cut the case for a sand seal . so dont blame mst blame your self for the pulley hitting the back of the pulley spencerfvee
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:45 am    Post subject: Re: Does anyone use the MST serpentine belt kit? Reply with quote

I recently bought mine and had to call them to tell them that their installation instructions were wrong(posted math vs actual measuring), within a couple days they modified the instructions.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: Does anyone use the MST serpentine belt kit? Reply with quote

Couple of days ? In today’s world I’d call that lightning fast 😀
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:11 am    Post subject: Re: Does anyone use the MST serpentine belt kit? Reply with quote

This is in general on the belts.

Evanfrucht said they fail if in storage too long?

I had no clue belts had a storage life span !!!!!

I pulled this up from Gates Belts, amazingly interesting.

Drive belts under or over certain temps average 8 Years in storage.
Picking up a new belt tomorrow.

https://ww2.gates.com/IF/facts/documents/Gf000280.pdf
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:14 am    Post subject: Re: Does anyone use the MST serpentine belt kit? Reply with quote

Yes, also important to note that this is a slide in sand seal. With these the case is not machined for a seal. You need to use sleeve retainer loctite or even jb weld (recommend loctite) and this shim appropriately as noted above.

Also, if it was run on the builders dyno, why are you breaking in the cam again
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:04 am    Post subject: Re: Does anyone use the MST serpentine belt kit? Reply with quote

nextgen wrote:
This is in general on the belts.

Evanfrucht said they fail if in storage too long?

I had no clue belts had a storage life span !!!!!

I pulled this up from Gates Belts, amazingly interesting.

Drive belts under or over certain temps average 8 Years in storage.
Picking up a new belt tomorrow.

https://ww2.gates.com/IF/facts/documents/Gf000280.pdf


Yes and it extends to all rubber products, hoses, belts, O rings, seals, hard parts like master cylinder/ wheel cylinders. So when you see OEM stuff look out.

Military stuff is all date coded.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: Does anyone use the MST serpentine belt kit? Reply with quote

spencerfvee wrote:
DerrickfromNC1 wrote:
We pulled the MST pulley out and here is what came out with:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I’m not familiar with sand seals but I told him that l believe the sand seal is supposed to be pressed fitted within the nose of the case. He called the builder(GEX😬) they told him to apply some JB weld and put the seal back in and wait 24hrs & that should solve the problem of slinging oil from behind the pulley.
I don’t like that option but I don’t see where he has another choice w/o opening the case. He purchased the complete engine(2110) from one of his lawn maintenance customers who purchased it about 2yrs ago and it was still on the crate. I told him to chk the samba reviews on GEX first b4 he brought it, but he decided at $4000 he couldn’t pass it up. I hope this sand seal issue is not the 1st of many problems to come.
..............................................................................................................................i have run and built many motors useing the mst set up you did not shim the pulley enought .people just dont know how to set up the mst pulleys the right way .they just think you bolt the mst on and go . and never check to see if every thing is lined up ..then when it fails they blame the mst as junk .all you had to do is install a xtra shim so it would not hit the sand seal the best way to use a sand seal is to cut the case for a sand seal . so dont blame mst blame your self for the pulley hitting the back of the pulley spencerfvee


I arrived on the scene after the fact to help a friend start/breakend his new engine & not blaming MST…..he purchased this engine from his landscape customer who purchased it turnkey from GEX totally assembled with MST/sand seal already installed. He’s just your average volks enthusiast who can change oil, belts, etc. If the MST was not shimmed properly then it was done by GEX. Their response was just put some JBweld on it and have a nice day. I told him I wouldn’t expect GEX to do anymore than that since he was not the individual who originally purchased the motor 2yrs ago.
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nextgen
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:59 am    Post subject: Re: Does anyone use the MST serpentine belt kit? Reply with quote

Zund
Thanks, My Toyota Solara has 200,000 miles on it. I think it is time to freak out.

Going to Costco at the moment to buy new tires $600 on sale, winter is here, that is like two car payment. Ha. So not a big deal.

Then going to have the belts checked.
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DerrickfromNC1
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 1:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Does anyone use the MST serpentine belt kit? Reply with quote

He called MST this morning to order a replacement sand seal & the rep indicated that the sand seal as he described it on the GEX engine is not the one that they include with their surpentine belt setup. They are sending this at no charge:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Looks like it’s held in place by the engine pulley tin screws. I’m assuming that the pulley tin goes on after the sandseal itself. Incidentally she told him to also apply JBweld when inserting it into the case to prevent leakage between the outer seal and case. Seams to me that the screws should do the job in preventing the outer sandseal from any type of movement and some type of permatex should do the job of leak prevention.


Last edited by DerrickfromNC1 on Fri Dec 10, 2021 2:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Does anyone use the MST serpentine belt kit? Reply with quote

txoval wrote:
Yes, also important to note that this is a slide in sand seal. With these the case is not machined for a seal. You need to use sleeve retainer loctite or even jb weld (recommend loctite) and this shim appropriately as noted above.

Also, if it was run on the builders dyno, why are you breaking in the cam again


They only paperwork he received from the original owner was GEX breakend instructions which we attempted to follow. We stopped immediately upon seeing the oil leakage. It wasn’t until he called GEX to inquire about the slinging oil behind the pulley that they claimed the engine didn’t leak behind the pulley on “their” dyno so I don’t know what’s true or not.
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